Marriage help reqd John Speake to Margaret Hilton(Completed)

[Radcliff]

1841 census has Alice Hulme as head,well sort of,

John Spake,son of Margaret Spake
28th August 1814
abode Blackrod
Parish Church Rivington,

John Speake and Alice formerly Mills seem to be the parents of the adults in the 1841 census,
all the children are baptised at St Katherine,including a Margaret,
Alice Hulme buried also Blackrod ,aged 81 years,30th December 1847

[Radcliff]

When Samuel Speak marries it has no fathers name included,St Peter Bolton 1845

[Radcliff]

I just think John is a little confused about his name..

St Wilfrid Standish
5th November 1843
John Hulmes of full age,bachelor collier
of Adlington,
father John Darbyshire,wheelwright
Margaret Hilton,spinster,Minor
of Adlington
father John Hilton,collier
witness to marriage Thomas Eccleston and James Darbyshire

[the fisherman]

Hi Radcliff, thank you for that info. I need to digest what you have said and see if I can understand it more clearly. I will get back when I have got my head round it.

[Radcliff]

I can not prove or disprove at this time the theory that John Hulmes is in fact John Spake/Speak.

John Speak and Alice(Mills) use Blackrod for all the baptisms and burials,
so look at the naming pattern,

Margaret 1789,2nd daughter,
possible mother of your John and Dianah later to marry John Hampson,St David Haigh,together in the 1841 census with head of possible household Alice Hume or Hulme,
both children baptised as children of Margaret.1815 and 1830
~~~~~~~~-------------------------------
Robert 1792,buried May 1801,

William 1795,

Alice 1799,possible mother of Samuel

Robert, August 1801

1841 census,Blackrod

[the fisherman]

Hi Radcliff,  In an earlier post MaureeninNY mentioned the same marriage as you, and I said I didn't think it could be that marriage because Margaret was shown as a minor. Margaret was baptised 29th Dec 1822 and the marriage to John Hulmes was on 5th Nov 1843, so if Margaret was baptised a couple of weeks after she was born, ie sometime in Dec 1822, then she could be classed as a minor. I owe MaureeninNy an apology for that.
What is the relationship of the Alice Hulmes on the 1841 census. If John was illegitimate, could he have been brought up thinking Alice was his mother and used the name Hulmes when he married. Maybe he only found out after the marriage that his name was actually Speake, and that is how he appears on the census reports.  That is about the only conclusion I can come to if that 1843 marriage is the correct one. If only relationships were shown on the 1841 census it would help solve many a problem. 
While I have been typing this another post from you has appeared.
I thought that Margaret could have been the mother of all 3 children on the 1841 census. I will check and see if I can find if it says Samuel was the son of Margaret.
Thanks

[the fisherman]

Hi Radcliff, Just found out that you are correct about Alice possibly being the mother of Samuel.
Samuel Speak, baptised 24th Oct 1819, Blackrod, father Speak, mother Alice Speak.
Regards

[Radcliff]

1851 census,
Folds,
Blackrod,
William Speake aged 56,unmarried,hand loom weaver,cotton,born Blackrod
Dinah Speake,aged 20,neice,aged 20,unmarried,hand loom weaver born,Blackrod,

Next door,
you have
George Green,aged 41,blue dyer ,born Blackrod
Alice Green aged 53,
Thomas Bullough,aged 17,? son.? miner born Blackrod
Esther Green,daughter aged 6,
HO107/2198
==============================================================
St Peter Bolton
8th September 1844
George Green,full age,bachelor,dyer of Blackrod
Alice Bullough,full age,widow of Blackrod,
grooms father George Green crofter,
brides father,John Spark,weaver,
witness to marriage,Robert Berry and James Liptrot,
---============================================================
St Katherine Blackrod
14th April,1833
Thomas Bullhough,son of Thomas Bullhough and Alice
abode Blackrod,
father a weaver,
==============================================================
St Katherines Blackrod
Esther Green
daughter of George and Alice Green
born,1st December 1844
baptised 15th Decmber 1844
abode Blackrod,
father a labourer,

[Radcliff]

Alice Speake
marriage
28th November 1803
Bolton Le Moors,
John Holme
this marriage needs checking out,
==============================================================
John Speake
burial Blackrod
15th March 1801
==============================================================
Burial,
St Katherines Blackrod
John Hulme
aged 70 years
abode Blackrod
19th September 1833