Author Topic: Blunt and Cartwright Family  (Read 10907 times)

Offline AlanWatson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #27 on: Friday 23 October 15 06:01 BST (UK) »
More good work on the Reynoldes/Burbidge marriage. Although they were both from St George, Surrey, I notice that they were married in St Andrew Holborn. I can see the marriage listing, but not yet the register entry. Has anyone found it?

I already have the Richard Blunt/Martha Beale marriage from the source you mention. I have their children as:

William 1699-1775
Richard 1699-1768
John 1701-1742
Thomas 1706-?

I have this Richard's father as Richard Blunt 1620-1690.

Some of this is from the Petersfield parish records and some, very doubtful, just copied from other people's trees. Particularly interesting was the will of William Blunt (usual Canterbury wills proved 8 April 1775). His wife was Frances and he had children Thomas, Richard, William, Robert and Martha. Martha married someone called Thomas Clement, which you can see from both the will and the parish records.

(All these wills are copies made by the clerks of the religious court which was in charge of probate at the time. I assume that they were writing as quickly as possible to get through their work, which is why many are illegible.)

I have our Robert as the son of Richard (probably 1699-1768 although I don't have a source for the death.) The same Petersfield records show a Richard Blunt marrying a Barbara Beet on 25 June 1727, which would have been about the right date, but I don't really have any evidence that they were the right couple or that our Robert was their son.

I would love to be more sure about this, and also to be able to establish a firm link between our Blunts and the Blunts of Petworth House, Petersfield, Sussex such as Wilfred Scawen Blunt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfrid_Scawen_Blunt
https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=tree&person=MQ1Z-2BL&section=pedigree

Meanwhile, I am still struggling somewhat to understand Robert's other family relationships. Can I try to summarise so that others can add/correct:

1. We know from his will that he had a brother (I assume that is must be brother even though it looks more like broker) Richard who was a carpenter living in Little Britain (slightly odd as wikipedia says that it was dominated by booksellers, goldsmiths and the clothing trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Britain,_London)

2. We know that Robert had a niece Mary Harrfy, daughter of William Harrfy. (Was it this niece who married a George Moody Longroft or her aunt?) We think that this William Harrfy was the son of William and Mary Harrfy (nee Brett) buried in Chichester Cathedral. This William was the son of Thomas Harrfy apothecary and his wife Elizabeth. We also think that the couple buried in Chichester had a daughter Mary Harrfy to whom her mother made bequests in her will. From this we know that our Robert had a sister who married William Harrfy. Do we know her name or anything about their marriage?

3. Do we know anything else about other brothers or sisters?

4. We know that he married Mary Burbidge, a widow on 28 January 1764 at St George the Martyr and we think that her maiden name might have been Reynoldes and we have some ideas info about the first marriage and the first husband's death. We know that her second marriage was witnessed by John and Ann Reynoldes. Might these have been her parents, siblings or brother and sister in law?

4. We know a lot about his children Robert (married Sarah Smith and Ann Porter) and Thomas (married Mary Phipps).

5. JJ Says above that son William continued to live at Red Cross St (Robert's burial record refers to New Red Cross St) after his mother's death. I can't find this source. Do we know more about him? There is a non-conformist death record for a William Blunt died 14 and buried 18 December 1828 in Shrewsbury aged 64. The burial is listed as 'Chosen by Robert Blunt' (is this a burial plot chosen by him?). As all this fits, I have assumed that this is him. There is a later record in the same source also 'Chosen by Robert Blunt' repeating the earlier information and adding a second death 'Mary Blunt aged 81 died 1st August 1851 buried 5 August 1851', ie born c1770. I had originally thought that listing the two of them together suggested that Mary was William's wife, or it could be Mary nee Phipps, Thomas's wife, who was born in 1770. Seeing a Mary in the 1841 Shrewsbury census previously I assumed that Mary nee Phipps moved to Shrewsbury after her husband died. (I cant find this Mary in the 1851 census.) Or it could be Robert Blunt's sister Mary Blunt born 1768. Any comments?

6. Does anyone have more on the two daughters, Mary and Sarah?


All for now.



Alan

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline AlanWatson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #28 on: Friday 23 October 15 06:18 BST (UK) »
I am still very interested in Marcham/Marlham. My sister points out that a child Maria Marlham, parents George and Mary, was christened in St Mary Lambeth, not far away, on 11 April 1788. I can also see the burial of a George Frederick Marlham, son of George Marlham, in St George the Martyr on 21 October 1791. I can't quite make out the address. The mention of a father & no wife suggests to me that this was a child. The only other Marlham entries I can see are a will for Hannah Marlham, from St Mary Lambeth, proved 21 November 1797, but I can't see anything interesting in it, and a marriage, also of a Hannah Marlham to a James Carmitchel in October 1752. Can't see how this would be relevant. I can't find a marriage, the birth of George Fredrick the son or the death of George the father.

And to raise a new question, does anyone have parents for Ann Porter?


Alan

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline AlanWatson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #29 on: Friday 23 October 15 06:27 BST (UK) »
William Harffy features in an Ancestry tree here http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/443303/family?cfpid=6636297454

It seems very complete except for the marriage of the son William to our daughter Blunt.

Alan

Offline J.J.

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,797
  • Census Crown www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #30 on: Friday 23 October 15 07:06 BST (UK) »
...I type so slowly...will post anyway and look at the new posts tomorrow

From the little blurb I found online with the bit from Mary Harffy's will.... re: their marriage prenuptuals, William Harffy married Mary Brett of Petersfield co. Hants 
They had a son William I believe I saw earlier, and a daughter Mary who was still single at the time of Robert's will married later to Longcroft...Is here an extra generation in there I am missing Alan?... I cannot find a connection to the Blunts ...But I am a slow searcher until I have access to some info.
I'll look for that pre-nup info again ...Alan did you read the will of Mary Harffy? Maybe the bit online was trancribed wrong as it says brother in law, not son in law.
I have no more information I don't think re garding your query...
Relying on memory regarding William in Minto after Mother's death...will look back into that as well...

Although I found them quite a while back, I had not figured out the burials of William & Mary either.
Yes it could be his brother William if we can find some proof!  & no I hadn't thought of it being Mary Phipps!

Sorry can't answer any of those questions. But getting late and spinning wheels right now, I'll pop in again if I find anything!

J.J.
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline J.J.

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,797
  • Census Crown www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #31 on: Friday 23 October 15 17:29 BST (UK) »
Hello Alan, I am sorry if I sounded as if I had something valid on the Harffy family.  I was looking through my notes after you posted and saw the Harffy thing again and "tried" for hours to read the Robert Blunt will when "rffy' caught my eye several times. I'd thought it was Scarfy.
I went back to the original description of the Harffy will  and realized the numbers within were on the previous page, Deeds of the Hollycombe Estate. It appears to have something prenuptual as it mentions the upcoming marriage for William Harffy & Mary Brett.  I am sorry I didn't add a link back when I found it. Very off my game....Doesn't appear to be in my notes either and I usually keep everything I find in case it one day fits in....Which it did for Robert's first family

July 17th 1742
a)Mary Brett, of Petersfield, co. Hants., spinster
b) William Harfey, of Liphook in Bramshott, co. Hants., chirurgeon
c) John Colebrook, of Petersfield, clerk, and Thomas Taylor, of Liphook, wheelwright
more on page
 
A familiar name now, there is a Beale in there as wittness!

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/a726ec10-e8b7-4dd4-b986-522169eb7351

Copied this link as well, not sure what it is. Have you seen this Alan?  Litigation Marlham v Phipps b.r.  http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=marlham

I have to run but...Hopefully can read more later  J.J.
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline J.J.

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,797
  • Census Crown www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #32 on: Friday 23 October 15 23:22 BST (UK) »
I modified to correct a few words in above reply as I'd been in a hurry and it made the wording ambiguous, sorry.

Alan, I had a bit of scattered info regarding local Marlham back in Reply#14 ...That George, the father, also had a brother Thomas who would be the right age for the marriage as well...The lads were christened St. Clement Danes, Middlesex  which are about 40 to 45 minutes walk from Mount St or Green Street.
Doesn't help anything, just adding...

Now have to go finish making supper so another day zipped by, haha...so sorry, not sure when I can delve in.
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline J.J.

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,797
  • Census Crown www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 24 October 15 00:03 BST (UK) »
A thought regarding burial plots being "chosen by" Robert, perhaps because they were uppercrustish types, they might have had their choice of places where they might inter their rellies?

I just found the information once again, that William was "working" on Red Cross street as an upholsterer....There are no addresses given in this information...so not sure ...This was in the 1820s not sure why I haven't a firm date.

J.J.
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Canadian  census  transcribed  data  2005 www.AutomatedGenealogy.com

Offline AlanWatson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 24 October 15 05:18 BST (UK) »
Lots more good stuff to look through.

I thought I had posted yesterday to agree with JJ and admit that I had inserted an extra generation in the Harffy relationships.

It should be

Dr William Harffy surgeon of Chichester  (1717-1795) (son of Thomas Harffy apothecary of Horsham and his second wife Elizabeth)
Married Mary Brett (1720-1771, will proved 1773)

One child William Harffy died young 1753
Daughter Mary b 1753 m 1778 George Moody Longcross.

This Mary was listed as sole beneficiary / one only child in her mother's will, but in the event of her death, everything would go to her brother in law, Robert Blunt of Southwark.

Robert in turn mentions this Mary Harffy as his niece.

I can only think of a few ways in which these relationships could arise

1. Robert Blunt and William Harffy were half-brothers.
2.Mary Burbidge was Mary Brett's sister,  which seems unlikely( two Marys), or
3. Robert Blunt had a first wife who was  Mary Brett's sister, which isn't possible as Robert was shown as a bachelor when marrying widow Mary Burbidge.

I am therefore left with the first of these. There would have been time after William Harffy's birth for his father to have died and his mother to have remarried, becoming Robert Blunt's mother.The very complete ancestry tree that I mentioned earlier (which has the will and two post-nuptual agreements attached) doesn't have the deaths of either of William's parents, but it does show Thomas Harffy apothecary carrying on in his practice for far too long. The only hope for this theory is therefore if this tree has missed a death and confused another Thomas, son, or nephew (both of whom existed) with the original apothecary of Horsham.

I can't find any evidence for this, however, and would very much welcome other ideas.

The court case looks like a very promising lead.

Alan


Offline AlanWatson

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Blunt and Cartwright Family
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 24 October 15 08:27 BST (UK) »
Another thought. Robert Blunt died when his children were very young. The main provision of his will was to leave funds for his executors to set up an annuity to support his wife and children. Among the provisions is that his children might get apprenticeships.

William Harffy (surgeon) and his father Thomas Harffy (apothecary) both took apprentices. Has anyone found a record of where our Blunts learnt the chemistry business?

Receipts for apprentices' payments are attached to the Harffy trees, but none from a Blunt. I will look.

Also, as well as his executors including his brother Richard Blunt, and his executor's daughter, his niece Mary Harffy, Robert's will also mentions Thomas Blunt of Petersfield, without mentioning a relationship. There are lots of Blunts of Petersfield. It might be worth trying to work out which one this is.

Alan