The Winder family from Bray

[alan.h]

Thanks!

IGI:

Abigail Winder bp 31 Mar 1718 Bray, daughter of John & Eliz. Winder

Are you connected to this family? John (1709-1782) was my 7x great-grandfather; which is why i am trying to find out more about him and his family. His daughter, Elizabeth (my 6x great-grandmother) died in her twenties. He had another daughter, Sarah, but refers to her - in his will -as 'late', so it does seem that none of his children outlived him. In his will he left the estate to his brother, William, but  directed that it be sold after William's death. I'm not sure if William ever lived there anyway, since he was a vicar in Seal, Kent.

The original post was to try and make sense of what happened in the years before John moved back to Bray from London, in 1772. If Grace lived in Wokingham, then I wonder who lived at Bullocks Hatch???

Alan

[DebbieG]

No not connected - just trying to help.

We don't know when Elizabeth & Grace went to Wokingham - they may have moved there when John moved back to Bray   

Rev William of Seal Kent wrote his will in 1786 and it was proved in 1790

Yes I did see that baptism for Abigail in Family search I think she must have died before her father made his will.

[alan.h]

Hi Debbie,
Thanks very much for your help with this. I really appreciate that.
Alan

[Little Nell]

Abigail died in 1722, buried 5 August.

There was also a son Francis, baptised 16 Aug 1716.  I could not find a burial for him.

When John Winder was buried in 1746, the register has a note"from St Botolph, Aldersgate."  His widow was noted as "of Bullock's Hatch."

I couldn't remember any more of your post at the time, so did not look much further in the transcript, but I know that the names Grace and Carswell were mentioned in the index.

There were other families by the name of Winder at the same time and I certainly saw baptism records for children of a Thomas & ?Margaret.

Have you seen the Winder references at British History online:

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=119400

a number recorded as of Bullock's Hatch.  There's a marina there now!

Nell

[alan.h]

Thanks, Nell,

I feel like a total amateur compared with you experts! (You and Debbie I mean)

The John who died in 1746 was from a different branch of the family, but the link to St Botolph's, Aldersgate is important for reasons too complex to go into....

Thanks for locating Abigail's burial and the other details too.

Alan

[Guzzy54]

Hi Alan et al

I have just read your post regarding John Winder of Bray. My name is Gary Winder. I have been researching my tree since 2012 and discovered I had a whole second family in Ireland through Ancestry. So Stephen, my 1st cousin once removed, and I have been researching together these last years. We both, and his uncle, my great-uncle have a copy of a tree drawn up sometime ago. Mine was handed down to me by my father. To cut a long story short this tree has always showed us as coming from Winkfield, Berkshire but my 6Xgreat-Grandfather Reverend John Winder who went to Ireland in 1690 with King William III was always a puzzle as to his lineage above him which indicated Berkshire. Stephen finally obtained some wills from Dearham, Cumbria and we have now confirmed that Reverned John's father is Peter Winder d.1669 of Dearham and his son of John Winder d1663. The funny thing is that in the National Library of Ireland in Dublin there are several family papers and John Winder of Bullock's Hatch is mentioned. In manuscript 3 there is a copy of part of a letter dated 20th Dec 1827 from Capt. John Winder RA brother of Edward Winder my 3rd GG stating "There is a considerable sum in the funds, unclaimed for a considerable time, in the name of John Winder of Bullock's Hatch, Berkshire, and left by his will to a John Winder. In manuscript 5 there are notes including on John Winder of Bullock's Hatch. We are still unsure of the connection although I am aware of all the people you have all mentioned here Carswell, Elizabeth, William as I was researching the Winder's of Winkfield for some time before changing course. I still believe that Cuthbert Winder d. 1612 of Winkfield originally came from Cumbria and had a brother up there linked to us. It is a conundrum. I will let you know if I ever find out anything. My tree is on Ancestry Public under garywinderfamilytreefinal if you want to have a look but it won't help for your John.

[papagrood2]

Gary, hello....I'm not sure if we've had contact before but I have corresponded with Stephen Winder.  I am descended from the Winkfield Winders and have turned cartwheels trying to establish the link to Cumbria which I'm sure exists!  I have been to Lorton and actually stayed at "Winder Hall" when it was a country house hotel, I have consulted a local historian and delved into the archives but still no link pops up.
Reading your reply to Alan prompts me to ask about your "Revd. John Winder" as he doesn't seem to be listed in the Church of England Clergy Database.  Can you say when and where he was ordained?
The mention of John Winder of Bullocks Hatch in the Dublin archives is tantalising and shows, at least, that there was some connection then.  I'm going to Dublin in September and wonder if there's anything else I could look up?
Another consideration is DNA testing.  If you and/or Stephen and Alan took a YDNA test it's possible that the results would show that connection.
As to Cuthbert who died in 1612, I too believe he came from Cumbria. It's such a shame there's no known birth for him.   Another coincidence is that a Peter Winder, curate of the church of St Mary the Virgin, Whitchurch-on-Thames, Oxon [just a little upriver from Winkfield] dies in 1609 and mentions his brethren in Whinfell.....is there a connection here I wonder?
   

[alan.h]

Hi, Apologies for the delay in replying. I'd be extremely interested in anything you find, I'm not sure that I can contribute anything very helpful to this right now. The link to Ireland sounds very interesting, as does the continuing mention of a link to Cumbria.

John Winder (1709-1782), my 7x great-grandfather, seems to have cut both of his  daughters (and their heirs) out of his will - so it would be interesting to know quite what happened to Bullocks Hatch and the estate after his death.

I am extremely busy with another branch of my family research at the moment, but will get back to the Winders asap and will post anything that might be relevant.

The mention of dna testing is worth considering. It's not something I've thought of before and I don't know too much about it, but I'm open to suggestions!