Author Topic: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?  (Read 19327 times)

Offline liam hua duinn

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 15 April 18 16:05 BST (UK) »
In 1610, William Bailie from Ayrshire, an "undertaker", was granted 1,000 acres in Toneregie, now Tandragee, in the Barony of Clankee in Co. Cavan. He was required to settle some Scottish families and to build a bawn, within which was to be built a castle.

This was Bailieborough Castle, close to the site of what would eventually develop as the town of Bailieborough.

William Roulston, writing in Culture and Society in Early Modern Breifne/Cavan, edited by Brendan Scott (Four Courts Press, 2009), notes that by 1630-31 there were 200 Scottish men living on Scottish-owned estates in Cavan and probably 60 to 80 families. On English-owned estates there were perhaps another 44 Scottish men: “The number of Scots living in Cavan by 1630, therefore, was smaller than in any other plantation county and the second smallest, after Monaghan, of any county in Ulster.”
so maybe this may help me discover my cavan dichares and dichers maybe not

Offline hallmark

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 15 April 18 16:06 BST (UK) »
1591 the ownership of the land is different from its occupation and some areas of land and estates became more highly colonised by tenantry than others county monaghan was not included in the official plantation because in 1591 its land ownership had been reorganised mainly amongst the irish themselves though with a significant number of new English owners too and their numbers were to increase in the early 17th century the rationale for this reorganisation in 1591 had been to diminish the autonomy and independent power of an ulster gaelic lord mcmahon   
1598 colonel edward blayney was the third son of David Lloyd blayney the high sheriff of Montgomeryshire 1577 and 1585   originally Blaenau family of welsh extraction claim descent from Cadwallader a younger son of a prince of wales accompanied the earl of essex to Ireland as colonel he was in command of 100 foot soldiers in leinster in 1598
1599 and commanding 150 at newry in 1599
1600 distinguished himself at the four mile water
1601 at the siege of Kinsale
1601 governor of mount Norris after helping defeat the macmahons
1602 made governor of the garrison of monaghan                                                                            1603 for his bravery Edward was knighted at Dublin castle in 1603 by the lord deputy lord mountjoy
1604 made seneschal and governor of county monaghan
1607 edward blayney granted land by king james 1 namely the 32 townlands of ballylurgan which were to be forfeighted if he does not build a strong castle surrounded withy a stone trench called a bawne within the next four years
1611 edward blayney was granted the termon of muckno and he built the original castle blayney on lough muckno using the stones of a destroyed augustian friary it was from the construction of this castle that a planter village soon grew and developed into the present town of castleblayney
1613 1617 permission was granted to hold fairs and markets and with the construction of the castle and the growth of the village edward blayney and the town of castleblayney Edward consolidated his position both locally and at national level
1613 edward blayney elected member of parliament mp for county monaghan between 1613 and 1615
1615 edward blayney investiture as a privy counsellor pc for Ireland 1615
1621 july 29th he was created by james 1 the first 1st lord blayney baron of the county monaghan of the county monaghan   
1629 february 11th edward blayney 1st lord blayney died
1629 february 23rd buried monaghan church monaghan greatest of all the monaghan landlords was sir Edward blayney who was succeeded by his son henry
1646 henry was killed in the battle of benburb                                                                                henrys son Edward sold both the monaghan and castleblayney estates                                              but the castleblayney estate was bought back                                                                                  the monaghan part however went to the westenras who later became the lord rossmores and these did not always enjoy a particualily happy relationship with the native irish
so maybe that explains the monaghan lands being planted but not by undertakers


Can you provide a Source that   the Duke of Perth  was one of the Undertakers in Monaghan??
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Offline liam hua duinn

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 15 April 18 17:37 BST (UK) »
donn posted I have been researching the McGruther name in Scotland and concluded that they came to Monaghan as settlers about 1625, as the Duke of Perth on whose land they lived was one of the Undertakers.

I posted  6. DYKER is a name largely confined to the same Perth, the Scottish landlord who owned the land the family tenanted in County Monaghan, came from
I don't mention that they were undertakers
so why are you requesting this info from me                                                         

Offline liam hua duinn

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 15 April 18 21:45 BST (UK) »
back to Castlerabin aka Castleraghen aka Castlerahan aka castleraine where Richard dichare and
james dicher were
1 Sir William taffe castlerabin castlerahan mullogh
2 sire Edmond phittilace caryyn maybe carnin
3 Sir Thomas ash knight
4 lieutenant garth murmode maybe murm of Lurgan
5 captain ridgeway lough rammor alias the manir of Chichester
6 captain culme  virginia town
7 sir john Elliot muckon
8 shane mcphilip orelie
 anyone know if any of these 1-8 are Scottish


Offline hallmark

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 15 April 18 22:40 BST (UK) »
donn posted I have been researching the McGruther name in Scotland and concluded that they came to Monaghan as settlers about 1625, as the Duke of Perth on whose land they lived was one of the Undertakers.

I posted  6. DYKER is a name largely confined to the same Perth, the Scottish landlord who owned the land the family tenanted in County Monaghan, came from
I don't mention that they were undertakers
so why are you requesting this info from me                                                       

I was wondering what land Perth, the Scottish landlord  owned  in County Monaghan to see if I can trace the Monaghan Dychers on my tree further......

That's why I was requesting this info from you!!

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Offline hallmark

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 15 April 18 23:22 BST (UK) »
back to Castlerabin aka Castleraghen aka Castlerahan aka castleraine where Richard dichare and
james dicher were


1 Sir William taffe castlerabin castlerahan mullogh

1000 Acres. Sir William Taaffe was the first patentee. Mullagh. He reports that Sir Thomas Ash, Knight, held these lands by the name of Mullogh and that there was an old castle newly repaired, but that all the Inhabitants were Irish.


2 sire Edmond phittilace caryyn maybe carnin

1000 Acres. Sir Edmond Phittilace was the first patentee. Carvyn. Sir Thos. Ash, Knight, also held this proportion on which was built a good bawne, of lime and  stone 70 feet square, 12 feet high, with two flankers, but that all the land was inhabited with Irish.


3 Sir Thomas ash knight


750 Acres. Sir Thomas Ash and John Ash. Drumsheel On these lands was a bawne of clay and stone, and another of sods 120 feet square, and all the inhabitants were Irish.


4 lieutenant garth murmode maybe murm of Lurgan

500 Acres. Lieutenant Garth was the first patentee. Murmode. Upon this proportion Was a bawne of sods, and all the Inhabitants were Irish. Sir Thomas Ash, Knt. was in possession.


5 captain ridgeway lough rammor alias the manir of Chichester

1000 Acres. Capt. Ridgeway was the first patentee Logh-Rammor, alias the manor of Chichester.  Captain Culme then held these lands, and a house 14 feet high, on which was a bawne of lime and stone 180 feet square. This bawne stood on a passage and was able to do good service, Captain Culme had conditioned to build a town called Virginia, for which he was allowed 250 acres: at that time, eight timber houses were built with English tenants, and there was a minister who kept a good school.


6 captain culme  virginia town

1500 Acres. Captain Hugh Culme and Archibald Moore, Esq. Tullavin   He reports that this was a place of great I strength, having a bawne and tower thoroughly finished, Mr. Moore and four English families dwelt there, the rest were Irish


7 sir john Elliot muckon

  400 Acres -» On these lands was a Sir John Elliot, Knt. Muckon.  On these lands was a bawne of lime and stone 60 feet square and a small house all the Inhabitants were Irish.


8 shane mcphilip orelie


 anyone know if any of these 1-8 are Scottish
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Offline liam hua duinn

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #51 on: Friday 27 April 18 21:00 BST (UK) »
hallmark just read that now but don't see a Scottish link
so I found this
Hi Simon, I am researching the McGruther name in Scotland.I hope what little I have on the Irish connection is of help to you.
The McGruder/McGruther etc name goes back to the 14th century in the Scottish records.They originally lived near Crieff on the land of the Drummonds, the Dukes of Perth where they were servants, chamberlains, tenants and latterly minor landholders in their own right.When the Drummonds said 'Jump', they jumped!
About 1600 - 1625 the Drummonds were amongst several Scottish nobility given the opportunity to settle dependants in the North of Ireland in County Monaghan and nearby.These servants, who were Episcopalians, were offered parcels of land of their own and thus given the opportunity to move from being tenants in Scotland to being landowners in their own right in Ireland.
I believe it highly probable ( I have not found records) that the McGruders were either pleased to take up this chance or coerced into it, and the name has since developed into McGrother in Ireland, just as it has become McGrouther, McGrewther, and McGruther etc in Scotland and Magruder in USA.
If you want to look for your immediate Irish ancestors, try County Monaghan.
Regards, Don

so don that's not what I have on record
what I have is that
in the early 1600s after queen Elizabeth died aka kinsale king james took over and he did request
About 1600 - 1625 the Drummonds were amongst several Scottish nobility given the opportunity to settle dependants in the North of Ireland in County Monaghan and nearby.These servants, who were Episcopalians, were offered parcels of land of their own and thus given the the opportunity to move from being tenants in Scotland to being landowners in their own right in Ireland.
They originally lived near Crieff on the land of the Drummonds, the Dukes of Perth where they were servants, chamberlains, tenants and latterly minor landholders in their own right.When the Drummonds said 'Jump', they jumped!
but don when they jumped they jumped to tyrone where john drummon from perth Scotland an undertaker took lands and if they went with him they settled 1600 1630s in tyrone
because colonel blayney and the earl of Essex had settled monaghan well before john Drummond got to tyrone and hallmark has given the list above but still I am to discover if its a welsh jig crossover to monaghan or if its a cross dycher over to tyrone  so reeling on
1697  1697 The majority of Scots who migrated to Northern Ireland came as part of this organized settlement scheme of 1605-1697. Plantation settlements were confined to the Province of Old Ulster, in the Counties of Antrim, Down, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Cavan, Fermanagh, and Londonderry. As many as 200,000 Scots crossed the North Channel to settle in Ulster in this approximately 90 year period. County Monaghan, although part of Old Ulster was not a Plantation county but it did receive Scots settlers in the 17th century as witness the First Monaghan Presbyterian Church in Monaghan Town which celebrated its Tercentenary in 1997. 1997-1897-1797-1697 300 years The Plantation of Ulster took place in two stages. The first stage was confined to the two eastern counties of Antrim and Down. The initiative was taken by Scottish fortune seekers.   
but don further to confuse the issue
from the census 1901 1911 mcgruthers mcgrothers McGruder are to be found antrim down Dublin louth monaghan Westmeath 
so maybe simons mcgrother connection may take him to monaghan where an Edward mcgrother was born circa 1861 but there again maybe antrim down Dublin louth and Westmeath might also be his link     
Hi all
my surname is McGrother.
My family is from the north east of England, back to about 1860 when James and Catherine McGrother (still the same spelling), with a son Bernard, moved from Ireland to Middlesbrough.
Prior to that the trail goes cold. There were 2 other McGrother families in Middlesbrough at the 1881 census: Peter&Bridget with 7 kids and Mary with 2 daughters.

I do not know if my own family linked with these other 2, but all of Peter, Bridget and Mary were also born in Ireland, so it seems plausible they moved en masse.

My questions:
(a) does anyone know how to trace James, Catherine, etc back to Ireland? Where they came from? Their ancestors?
(b) Does anyone have a McGruther/McGruder/etc line that comes to a dead end in mid 19th century? Could be a name change to my line perhaps?

Thanks in advance
so as I cant message simon mcgrother to inform him of the above if you don happen to know his contact details you could contact him that's if he has not already accessed the above information

Offline hallmark

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #52 on: Friday 27 April 18 22:24 BST (UK) »
I agree  people were given  the opportunity to settle dependants in Ireland....

"If they built a Bawn" etc etc which many didn't so land was given to others!!

Many just sold what they were given!

Between 1708 and 1785 the Drummonds certainly weren't registering Leases, in fact only 2 and these were by Mrs Urey in Tyrone!!


Even if one looks on the Drummond Pedigree there is only the one who bought Kesh Castle, who died without issue.


The Galway one


And the one in Dublin Castle....

0 leases granted by Perth!!




As for McGruther ... who is the earliest one found and who is the Landlord and Where??
.
.
.

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Offline hallmark

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Re: When did protestant settlers first arrive in Monaghan?
« Reply #53 on: Friday 27 April 18 22:40 BST (UK) »
"...researching the McGruther name in Scotland and concluded that they came to Monaghan as settlers about 1625, as the Duke of Perth on whose land they lived was one of the Undertakers..


Where is the Source that the Duke of Perth was one of the Undertakers please?
Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.