Author Topic: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...  (Read 12306 times)

Offline nottsgirl1

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #18 on: Friday 29 March 13 14:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

If the fathers name on Nellies marriage is false it is because she didn't know who her father was because she was  illegitimate.  The birth certificate wont have a fathers name down if that was the case.

My own great grandfather was  illegitimate and was married twice and put different fathers name down on both certificates.

So the answer to your question is no you wont be able to find out who the father was unless there is a maintenance  order in court records.

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Offline aghadowey

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #19 on: Friday 29 March 13 17:42 GMT (UK) »
I mentioned earlier that the father might be listed in baptismal record- some clergy were quite careful to record the father in each and every baptism of an illegitimate child so one wonders if they made it a condition for performing the ceremony.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline nottsgirl1

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 30 March 13 11:50 GMT (UK) »
In 1925 not so many children was christened or baptised, once TylerGib has a birth certificate and knows where their Nan was born we could check the records for them if Nottingham Archives have them.

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Offline Hackstaple

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 30 March 13 11:55 GMT (UK) »
Very often the parents' names and occupations on marriage  certificates were fictional. All that I have read here convinces me that, like hundreds of other such instances we hear on Rootschat, the Nan was illegitimate.
Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena.
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Offline Redroger

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 30 March 13 14:51 GMT (UK) »
I lived in that general part of England (East Midlands/South Yorkshire ) for over 70 years, and in my experience the surname Law(e/s) was not that uncommon.The ONS site Surnames of England and Wales shows over 20,000 instances of Law and variants in 2002, so in an immediate area a marriage of 2 people named Law(e) is by no means unlikely.
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Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 31 March 13 23:31 BST (UK) »
The thing here is that we seem to know that mother Nellie just plain did not marry. ;)

When a person's parents were not married, it was very common for them to make up a father's name for a marriage certificate. (The same was true for people who were using a false name when they married, as my gr-grfather and his sister did.)

There were standard reasons for the name given, some of which have been mentioned. It could have been:
- the name of the person's maternal grandfather
- the name of the person's maternal uncle or older brother
- the given name of the person's stepfather (mother's husband or partner) combined with the person's own surname
- the given name of the person's real father (if they knew it) combined with the person's own surname
- in the case of a man, his own name and occupation (making him a Jr following in the footsteps of a fictional Sr)
- a complete invention

The same applies if an occupation was stated: it could have been the real father or stepfather's occupation, regardless of how the name itself was concocted. Or, again, a complete invention. I don't think I saw the answer to what info was given in this case: an occupation or "deceased" ("deceased" being the easy out, especially if the person marrying was not telling their spouse the truth either).

The birth certificate is likely going to show a blank (and all else is pure speculation until you have it). Then it's a matter of searching for clues -- if there is a James with the right occupation in the vicinity or with some family or occupational connection with the mother or with her father, when the child was born, for instance.

Some mothers in this situation left clues and passed on information -- my great-aunt's middle name was the surname of the household where my gr-grmother was in service, as an example (and this was fairly common practice), and the story passed down by my grmother is that her sister's "father" was the son of the head of that household.

Without such clues ... it will likely indeed be paddle and creek time. ;)
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Offline TylerGib

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #24 on: Monday 01 April 13 11:02 BST (UK) »
Wow thank you for replies you have given people.

Indeed Nellie never married. My mum remembers living at the given address on her Mums marriage cert. She said it was strange how her Nan, Nellie, got a massive 3 floored terrace for a peppercorn rent. I.e. next to faff all. She always thought that something was going off between her and the landlord. They were connected she seems to think to the florists T J Barker and Son up the road. But this is just speculation but a lead to follow non the less.

So thanks for the above post for all possibilities of reasons, I shall try to find a connection somewhere. Only a few days till the birth cert comes through.

Offline TylerGib

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 04 April 13 17:01 BST (UK) »
Well here we go,

I got Sarah Margherita Lawe (my Nan) birth cert through the other day. Father down as James Lawe, occupation is Mechanical Engineer. She was born at Tiln, Hayton, Nr Clarborough, East Retford.

Ihave done some searching on James but really coming up with much atm, is there anyone that could perhaps unearth something now?

And it it helps, it reads Nellie Surgey Lawe formally Lawe, which would suggest a marriage but not as far as my Mum is aware, but cripes, what she has been told has to be taken with a pinch of salt now....

Thanks

Offline carol8353

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Re: My Nan has a Dad that actually cant be possible...
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 04 April 13 17:07 BST (UK) »
What date? It's okay I've found it now!
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