James Little Family Derrynoose, Armagh

[LillianCat]

Hi there,

Hoping for some help, I'm looking for information on the Little family who emigrated to Ayrshire, Scotland from Armagh County after 1851 (I believe, as I can't locate them in the 1851 Scottish Census.)

Alexander Little married Elizabeth Muirhead in Kirkmichael, Ayrshire, Scotland Jan. 1, 1855. (I believe this was the first day of the civil registry in Scotland?) Their marriage registry lists Alexander as being born in Ireland, County Armagh, and registered February 8, 1829 in Derrynoose. His father is listed as James Little (deceased) and his mother as Margaret McCall.

Griffith's Valuation lists a James Little for Armagh in townland Roughan, Derrynoose. As that valuation was taken in 1864, I would assume it's an older brother of Alexander's. Does anyone know where this is on the map? I have been trying to locate what church their records would have been in, I am assuming they would have been Presbyterians but haven't found any records whatsoever, and was told by a geneologist that the Derrynoose Presbyterian records no longer exist.

There is also a James Little who appears on the 1796 Flax Lists for Keady.

Alexander had a sister named Elizabeth who married a man named Joseph Woods. They had at least 4 children born in Ireland and they didn't emigrate to Scotland until after 1869.

Their mother Margaret McCall also emigrated and died in Scotland. Again, I assume James Little, father of Alexander and Elizabeth died in Ireland, as I find no death registry for him in Scotland.

I find the townland distinctions confusing. Why would there be a townland indicated in Griffith's be named Roughan House? Drumgreenagh seems to be a road?

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[aghadowey]

Welcome to Rootschat. The townland of Roughan is in Derrynoose civil parish (Lurgan Poor Law Union/registration district).

You can see Griffith's Valuation and view the maps here- I can't see 'Roughan House' mentioned as a townland.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

Joseph Woods married 1859 Eliza Little https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGC5-4LR
Children-
Anne (1864) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FR9J-MF7
Elizabeth (1866) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FRQ1-MVD
Robert (1869) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5J2-M9K
Mary Jane (1872 Scotland) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYRG-19S
Helen (1874 Scotland) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYRP-997

Civil registration of births began in 1864 and since Joseph & Elizabeth were married in 1859 there might be a few more children born 1859/1863.

[LillianCat]

Thanks so much for the quick reply and of course you are correct, the Townsland is Roughan, and underneath in italics is (Roughan House). Do you have an interpretation of that?

Thanks so much for the information on Elizabeth and Joseph's family, I appreciate it!

Perhaps someone may have insight into the Derrynoose church records...

[aghadowey]

Searching for Roughan townland in Armagh there are 2 that come up in Griffith's- it's not clear whether this is one townland which is in two parishes but perhaps someone with local knowledge will be able to throw more light on this.

I meant to add a link to the Valuation notebooks in which you can follow the occupancy of a property from the printed Griffith's until 1929- the scanned images were just added to the PRONI website this week-
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm

I can find no trace of records for Derrnoose Presbyterian Church on PRONI's list of microfilmed church records or other lists- it the records do survive it might be that they are in local custody only.

[gaffy]

LillianCat, it is only an observation, but do you have anything to corroborate a prolonged presence of that Little family specifically in Derrynoose Parish? 

Without it, the jump from Alexander's birth there in 1829 to James possibly being a brother in Griffiths Valuation printed for this area some 35 years later is quite a big one.

Little isn't that rare a name, Griffiths Valuation shows several dozen of them in County Armagh alone, with 6 of them James.

[LillianCat]

Of course, you are correct as well. I only just became aware of the fact that the Armagh evaluation was done in 1864. Previous to learning that I had assumed the James Little in Roughan was Alexander's father. I don"t know how long the tenant farmer leases were, perhaps the Littles weren't farmers and were only laborers on farms, in which case there would be no record of them, I suppose.

Upon emigration to Scotland they are swept into the mining and ship building trades, which don't really seem to be vehicles to economic freedom. The pattern of the names remains consistent, with James and Alexanders repeating over and over every 30 years until the last Alexander is rumored to have been living as a hermit in a field in Bailleston, Scotland and becomes untraceable. His father, the last James, flees back to Ireland (Liminary, Ballymena) after some tragic circumstances in Glasgow and more than likely expires in a haze of alcohol.

I'm assuming the Littles weren't in Ireland long, I have found an Alexander Little, father of Alexander and James Little (b.1769) from Saltcoats, Ayrshire, right on the coast. He is a Couper, a dealer of horses and cattle. If the elder child Alexander inherited his father's estate, it would make sense for James to take some livestock and rent some cheap farmland 13 miles across the water.

I'm aware this approach to genealogy reeks of a "made for TV" mini series.

[jimlittle]

Dear Lillian

 A relative of mine sent me your query.

My grandfather William Little and family emigrated from Scotland and settled in Western Australia.  William is the son of Alexander Little and Elizabeth Muirhead.

The family tree is bit complicated so I will stop here and hope this info is correct.

Regards

Jim Little

Canberra, Australia

[LillianCat]

Hello Jim!

I am thrilled to hear from you!

I'm the Granddaughter of Jemima Little (Marshall), who was born
November 25, 1898 in Holytown, Lanarkshire, Scotland to James Little (your Grandfather's younger brother?) and Helen Moodie.

Would you be interested in corresponding via email?
If so, I would be honored...

My name is actually Katherine (Katy) Marshall

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Sincerely,
Katy

[jimlittle]

Dear Katy

Thank you for your pleasant reply.

It looks like we are related through my grand father, a cousin of sorts I guess.

I would be pleased to continue a connection now I know how to use Roots.

Alternarively it would be better to use my email address that  is :



However I see that the moderator may have removed e-mail.

Regards

Jim Liitle