Whitechurch, New Ross / Cleary & Doyle

[shanew147]

....Where did you find the Marriage record between Phillip and Mary Kane?  Is there a link? 

I noticed on the marriage record that ther was a Mary Kane and a Mary Keane.  Could be either one, I guess right?  I've seen records that he married a Keane and a Kane.

here's a link to the marriage Index record for Philip Cleary's marriage :

  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FYKP-1ZV

Two records appear on the Index with the same references, i.e. year/quarter, registration district, volume & page - one for a Mary Kane, the other for a Mary Keane - probably her name was indexed twice for the same marriage, as these are effectively just variations of the same name.

A cert from the GRO would give you the rest of the details. See :
    Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon
    Details included on a Marriage Cert
 

....
Also since that info you have above, if Mary was the grantee of Phillip, its safe to assume she was still alive in 1958, correct?
...

Yes

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Anything on a Simon Cleary? 
...

There are a number Simon Cleary BMD references with New Ross as the district. Links to search results dont work any more on FamilySearch, but if you select the BMD Index on FamilySearch, enter firstname Simon, surname Cleary, click the 'Any' option, and enter New Ross in the 'Any Place' field, and click search - you will see a number of Births, Marriages, and Deaths in the area, that would be would considering for your Simon

...
Also per that link, Willie Cleary married Bridget/Brigid Colfer in 1933.  But I can't find any kids on them.  Elizabeth Cleary's obituary said they were from Whitechurch.
......

Details or searches for living, or possibility living, people are not permitted in posts, but you can search the BMD Index yourself for possible children of children of Willie and Bridget, and order certs to check if they match. Narrow down your search by mother's Maiden surname, and registration district (e.g. New Ross for Whitechurch) to reduce the possible matches.



Shane

[bmk923]

Thank you again!

I know William and Bridget (Colfer) are deceased. If they had children, there is a good chance some of them are still alive as they got married in 1933, or they may have just recently passed.  But again, Bridget is a common name, as well as Cleary in the Wexford area.   I have William's mass card identifying his death. 

I found another family tree identifying that a Simon Cleary married a Catherine Gannon, but the dates don't seem to match up.  (They have the same other relatives on their tree, they just haven't contacted me back).  I dont think its the right Simon, as it may be Patrick Cleary's brother, or cousin. 

Oh how I wish my grandmother was still alive so I could ask some more questions! 

[culbaire]

A Simon Cleary died in the New Ross Registration district in 1958 with a suggested birth date of 1898 so that could be your Simon. A Simon Cleary has same volume number and page number as a Katie Gannon for a marriage in New Ross area 1st Quarter 1895 so that is probably the one you found.

[bmk923]

Yes, thank you.  I did find that one, as he's the only Simon Cleary from New Ross that died after 1933 (he was pictured in a wedding photograph at that time) and his mother's obituary in 1942 lists that he attended.  I did put that as his date of death.

Was it common to only list children that actually attended the funeral/mass in obituaries?   My great grandfather, Pierce and his sister Marcella, were in Chicago.  They didn't fly back for Elizabeth Cleary's funeral.  I just wonder if there was a falling out with the family as they were the  only 2 siblings that immigrated to the states.

I also found a military death record for a Patrick Cleary in 1916 from Wexford.  I do believe that's another sibling of Pierce's.  Especially since he was listed in the 1911 census.  I also found a James Cleary death record in 1914, another sibling.  I just don't know if Patrick and/or James immigrated, or if they also stayed in Wexford. 

The Cleary family really is a puzzle, but so interesting since they were a popular family back in the day.  Thats why I'm trying to find out about all my great aunts and uncles! 

Mary Cleary (another sibling) married a Michael Molloy.  They had Patrick Molloy (he died in 1942 in a fire) and Nannie Molloy.  I can't find anything on a Nannie Molloy.  I'm not sure if its another pet name or if Nannie was her first name. 

[shanew147]

Yes, thank you.  I did find that one, as he's the only Simon Cleary from New Ross that died after 1933 (he was pictured in a wedding photograph at that time) and his mother's obituary in 1942 lists that he attended.  I did put that as his date of death.
.....

just to note that the online version of the BMD Index only covers up 1958.

[bmk923]

Oh, I didn't know that.  Thank you.  So he could have lived a lot longer, as his approx age in 1958 was 61. 

Thanks for that.

[bmk923]

I wrote another post below, but hoping that maybe someone can help me find more information on them.  According to Elizabeth Mary Cleary (nee Doyle) obituary, she came from a well known and popular family.  See obituary below:

The death occurred at her residence, Whitechurch, New Ross on Sunday, 2nd inst., of Mrs. Elizabeth Cleary, relict (??) of the late Patrick Cleary, an extensive farmer, well known in public and sporting life, and a member of widely connected and very popular family.  The deceased, who posessed many intellectual gifts, was connected with well know families in the counties of Wexford and Kilkenny.  She was sister-in-law of the late Right Rev. Monsingor (sp?) Cleary, P.P. of Petaluma, California who returned to his native place near Raheen, Adamstown some twenty -five years ago where he died.  She was also a cousin of Rev. J. Meaney C.C. Kilkenny.  Many members of the families of both herself and her husband have been well known in the public, professional and commercial life.  She was held in great esteem by all classes and creeds.  She passed away after receiving the last rites of Holy Church with exemplary resignation and religious fervour.  Her family have been the recipients of the deepest sympathy.  The funeral to Whitechurch Cemetary on Tuesday after Office and High Mass in Ballykelly Church was attended by a huge gathering of people from the New Ross, Ennniscorthy, Wexford and Kilkenny districts.
The chief mourners were - Mssrs. Walter, Simon, Willie and Philip Cleary (sons), Mrs. L. Roban, Enniscorthy (daughter), Mrs P. Cleary, Whitechurs; Mrs. W. Cleary, do; Mrs. W Cleary, Killesk (daughters-in-law), Mr. Myles Roban, Enniscorthy (son-in-law), Master Patk. Molloy and Niss Nannie Molloy (grandchildren), Mrs W. J. Rochem, Royal Hotel, New Ross and Mr. Wm. J Roche, do; Mr. Patrick Cleary, Ballyanne (niece and nephews); Rev. J Meaney, CC Kilkenny; Miss B. Meaney, C.C. Kilkenny; Miss B. Meaney, Ballilogue; Messrs Patric James and Con Meaney, do; Robert Barron, postmaster, Campile and ?? Barron, do.
 
The last paragraph is torn but I think it mentions  all of the priests who attended...
,,,,,,,At the Office and High Mass Rev Canon Redmond, P.P, Horsey presided, 

I also found a wedding picture of Elizabeth's son, William Cleary from 1933 online by googling some of the family. http://homepage.eircom.net/~horeswoodns/memorylane11.htm

Obviously they were well known, due to having a wedding photo in the family history section of the school's page.   No one just puts a random family up. 

I have found all the siblings due to the 1901 and 1911 census.  What i'm really looking for is records on Elizabeth Mary Doyle and Patrick Cleary.  Their first daughter was born in 1880, Mary.  I can't find their marriage record.   Elizabeth was born around 1862-1865 and Patrick around 1852.


Moderator Note : Please keep one thread per family/subject rather than starting new threads.

[bmk923]

On Familysearch.org I found this:

  Name: Patrick Cleary
  Event Type: Death
  Quarter/Year : Oct - Dec 1907
  Registration District: New Ross
  Age: 57   (est. year of birth 1850)
  Volume :  4  / Page: 435

How do I go about trying to order the birth certificate or death certificate?  Will/Should they list the parents names?

[shanew147]

death certs do not include details of parents, except sometimes in the case of death of children when a parent is the informant. Civil registration of births started in 1864, so no birth cert will be available for this person.

The place of death, occupation of the deceased, and details of the informant can provide clues to help establish, or rule out, a connection.

see:  Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon
         Details included on a Death Cert