Author Topic: not sure what 'landed Estate Court Files are? Help please.  (Read 3908 times)

Offline atmartinas

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not sure what 'landed Estate Court Files are? Help please.
« on: Saturday 20 April 13 10:57 BST (UK) »
I know very little about my maternal Grandfathers family. He was Laurence Leary 1896-1980 Ballynamonabeg, Ballaghkeen and his father was John Leary (1858-1937). I found a Laurence Leary entry on Family Search-'Landed Estate court files'

Name:    Laurence Leary
Event Type:    Probate
Event Date:    1854
Event Place:    Wexford, Ireland
Document Number:    046
Volume Number:    083
Volume Date Range:    Nov-Dec 1866
Property Name:    
Parish:    
Electoral Division:    
Barony:    
County:    Wexford
Alternate Event Place:    Ballynamonabeg

What do the dates mean, what event was 1854? why is volume date 1866? Ballynamona beg is a small townland and there are no other leary families there that I know of so I believe this is my relation.
Thanks
M
Can anyone enlighten me please?
Roche Wexford/USA
Sinnott 2 families Ardcavan Wexford/USA and Boolaboy.
Cullen Ballyknockan  Wexford/ USA
O'Leary Wexford
Leacy Wexford /New York
O'Dwyer Tipperary
Hayes Tipperary
Wall Tipperary
Cormac Tipperary
Shanahan Tipperary

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Offline shanew147

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Re: not sure what 'landed Estate Court Files are? Help please.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 20 April 13 13:15 BST (UK) »
You might be able to clarify the context of the dates used on the FamilySearch Index by viewing the corresponding image, should be available in a FamilySearch Centre, or possibly on FindMyPast.ie., but to see the full details I think you would need to view the actual records in the National Archives.

   Landed Estate Court Records (FindMyPast IE)
   FamilySearch add LEC records  (Claire Santry)
   Records at the National Archives
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Offline Elwyn Soutter

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Re: not sure what 'landed Estate Court Files are? Help please.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 20 April 13 13:53 BST (UK) »
Many of the big landowners in Ireland in the 1800s had borrowed heavily against their estates. They relied on the rental income to service their loans. During the mid 1880s, the famine and other factors meant that many tenants either could not pay their rents or could not pay in full (and many also died or emigrated which reduced the rental income too). The consequence was that many of the owners ended up in serious financial difficulties and faced bankruptcy. The extent of this was so widespread that some of the banks who lent the money also faced potential bankruptcy. (Somewhat similar to recent financial crises around the world where lenders lent rashly against assets that proved to be overvalued). The solution in the 1850s was the creation of a special process and eventually a court for enabling them to sell their estates at a fair market price (which would go to the lender) but after which any outstanding debt would be written off.

As with any sale process, an inventory was drawn up showing what the property consisted of, including any sitting tenants. The potential rental income, and existing tenure, was clearly a critical piece of information for any prospective purchaser. So probably Laurence Leary was a tenant on an estate that was being sold under Estate Courts process, possibly in 1854. The inventory normally would detail all the properties for sale, by townland, (similar to Griffiths) together with details of the  leases ie when granted, and when it would expire etc. Sometimes people had 3 lives leases and this can be very useful in genealogical terms as it would list the 3 lives and their relationships, so you might get several generations named. Not always though.

I canít help you with the 1866 date but the mention of probate would suggest that someone had died and that there was a winding up of an estate, but as Shane has said, you would need to get the documents to get the whole story.
Elwyn

Offline atmartinas

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Re: not sure what 'landed Estate Court Files are? Help please.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 20 April 13 14:10 BST (UK) »
Thanks Elwyn and Shane for the information and advice. I have looked at the record now on FindMyPast all is now clearer. When I saw the word probate I thought it was something to do with Laurence Leary's death which would not have been good for me as it would mean he died before his son was concieved! But not so, 1854 is the date the tennancy began and 1866 is when the Estate of Viscount Valentia was being sold. It is as you said an auction type catagolue of the estate being sold. I was delighted to look at it as the map confirms for me that it is my family homeplace :). I will have to go through it all (91 pages) as I have already noticed two others of interest to me also rented their land from the same estate.

M
Roche Wexford/USA
Sinnott 2 families Ardcavan Wexford/USA and Boolaboy.
Cullen Ballyknockan  Wexford/ USA
O'Leary Wexford
Leacy Wexford /New York
O'Dwyer Tipperary
Hayes Tipperary
Wall Tipperary
Cormac Tipperary
Shanahan Tipperary

Offline shanew147

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Re: not sure what 'landed Estate Court Files are? Help please.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 20 April 13 14:15 BST (UK) »
I think some (all?) of the LEC Index records on FamilySearch have been inadvertently classified under probate.

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