Author Topic: Too many Morgans!  (Read 7243 times)

Offline OrganicJohn

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 09 February 16 09:29 GMT (UK) »
I cannot find any link but will have another look just in case

John
Morgan in London.Brimmell in Gloucester.Truman in London and Norfolk.Spratt in London,Stroud,and U.S.A.Berriman in London,Cornwall,and Australia.Steer in London.Blackburn in Essex.

Online mckha489

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 24 March 21 01:27 GMT (UK) »
Hello John,  I wonder how you have progressed with this family. I have recently started looking at it on behalf of a friend.   

John Morgan the recorder of Maidstone, member of the Inner Temple, Barrister at Law

 I agree his children (not worrying about their descendants in this post) are

1. Maria who married John Luttrell-Olmius, Lord Carhampton
When she died both her brothers posted death notices identifying themselves so that confirms.
Also her marriage reported
“At Grove House, Middlesex, the Hon J. Olmius, of New Hall, in Essex, to Miss Maria Morgan, daughter of John Morgan Esq. of the Inner Temple”

Richard Morgan her brother was one of the witnesses as well as John Morgan
She was born about 1776 (census and age at death). But I have not found a baptism for her


2. Richard
His baptism was at St Andrew Holborn 28 Feb 1780 (born 26th January 1780) parents John and Sarah Morgan of Chapel Street.
He married Phillida/Philida du Croz and is the ancestor of my friend for whom I am researching.   Separate post about her to follow eventually.


3. Amelia
Baptism 22 October 1782, St Andrews Holborn.    Parents John and Sarah Morgan of Chapel Street

At her marriage on 23 June 1803 to John Foster (widower from Bedford, Plantation owner etc etc) John Morgan consents to the marriage and John Olmius is a witness.
Newspaper report describes John as Esq of the Inner Temple.

4. Edward.
Baptised 4 Dec 1785 at St Giles in the Fields.   Married Harriet Cole Safford. 
Edwards notice for death of Maria Countess Carhampton, includes his address, Peel Terrace, Jersey, following census, deaths etc, confirms.

Back to John the recorder of Maidstone.

1. There are a couple of documents at National Archives written (or at least signed) by him.

2. In Vol 5 of the Calendar of the Inner Temple records. Page 190

https://www.innertemple.org.uk/who-we-are/history/calendars-of-inner-temple-records-1505-1845/

April 24th (1766).  The sum of £150 to be accepted of Mr John Morgan for the purchase of the chambers two pair of stairs on the right hand in the second staircase in the Inner Temple Lane, fallen to the House by the death of Edward Williams Esq., for his own life with the benefit of an assignment, and on payment of the said sum John Morgan to be admitted accordingly at the next or any other parliament to be held this term.
   Parliament: May 9. Confirmed, Mr Morgan aged about 32 years, having paid the sum of £150.


So - 32 in 1766 = born about 1734


They had to do a 5 year thing and then in February 1771 he, was “called up to the degree of Barrister at Law”. Of the Honourable society of the Inner Temple.

Also called up were Matthew Hales Graves and Richard Clayton - I only mention that because the Clayton name appears in the du Croz line I have been following.  The Du Croz and the Morgan families seem heavily intertwined.

3. I do think this John Morgan died “On Tuesday last, after a severe illness, John Morgan Esq, late of the Inner Temple Barrister at Law”.  This works out at 30 August 1803 and so he must be the burial 3 September 1803 at St George the Martyr, Southwark.  Of Hatton Place.

Then in the Inner Temple calendar (vol 6) the Rooms occupied by him are passed on at the recommendation of Richard Morgan the son and administrator on the 3 Feb 1804.  (Typical lawyer No Will! or not found by me yet anyway.)

That being the case, the John Morgan in the case against Sir Watkin Lewes must be a different man.
As well In the report of the appeal of that case in the Morning Chronicle of 6 July 1825 it says John Morgan was a solicitor and Sir Watkin Lewes a barrister. And I know that is a critical distinction in England.


Where is his marriage to Sarah?  Ancestry would like me to think it was to Sarah Chittenden  July 1765, Southwark, but there is a marriage allegation  and I am quite sure it describes him as a Mariner.
Unless - he came on shore, and went to the Inner Temple in 1766.   Is that likely?   Where did he get the £150 from to purchase his entrance?  It seems a lot of money.

Where are the children that would have been born between 1765 and 1776?
Where is the death of the Sarah
we know was his wife.  It must be after the birth of Edward and perhaps before the death of John.   ie. after 1785 and before August 1803.




Modified to add Link to the Inner Temple records.
 

Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline OrganicJohn

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 25 March 21 14:05 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the information. I have not done any ancestry research for some time now.I do not quite follow how you rule out John Morgan (Recorder of Maidstone) being the same John Morgan as the lawman involved with Watkin Lewes but will look through what you have written again. Do you think John Morgan(Recorder of Maidstone) was related to David Walter Morgan? I cannot remember how I reached that conclusion in the first place. I need to do some revision!
Morgan in London.Brimmell in Gloucester.Truman in London and Norfolk.Spratt in London,Stroud,and U.S.A.Berriman in London,Cornwall,and Australia.Steer in London.Blackburn in Essex.


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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 25 March 21 19:52 GMT (UK) »
The long summary of the case in the Morning Chronicle 17 August 1829 Finishes by referring to an affidavit made by John Morgan on the 12th February 1819.  It doesn’t say representatives of John Morgan, or other words indicating it is to do with his estate.

I know that that was after the death of Sir Watkin in 1821 but

The report in 19 November 1817 - Star (London)   Clearly implies both men are still alive

So as I think John Morgan  of the Inner Temple died in 1803 it cannot be the same man.

Also, as both his daughters had married well, I would have though there would be a mention of his sons in law in one of those articles, and I have found none.  And there is no mention of him being a member of the Inner Temple either.

And he is clearly alive here, or he wouldn’t be able to be committed to the Fleet.

24 January 1818 - Star (London



I would Like to agree with you because there is quite a list of relatives in the 1825 report

What we need is the death post 1818 of another John Morgan, solicitor , old enough to be working in 1775. (John of the inner Temple would have been 84 by 1818).

......

Regarding David Walter.   I was hoping you had found something new in the intervening years.  It does seem a great coincidence that the Olmius name should be associated with both men.  On the other hand, Richard Morgan did not name any of his children either David or Walter and at least two of the sons have three forenames, so he wasn’t averse to handing them out.


Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 25 March 21 20:08 GMT (UK) »
Also, the 1778 will of Chardin Morgan names the same brothers as in the 1825 article (James, George and John) and a beneficiary is also William the 2 year old son of John.

I have not found a son William to John Morgan of the Inner Temple (but as I have also not found Maria that probably doesn’t mean much).

I think Chadrin was baptised 1751 which makes him much younger than John of the Inner Temple.  Although within the realms of possibility if he was the youngest and John the eldest.


The 1825 article says that John married someone FARRER.  There is a 1775 marriage of Amelia Farrer to John Morgan.   
If she died, then he could have remarried to Sarah, she is the mother of the children in the baptisms I have found.

Added... have found baptism of William to John & Amelia in 1776.

Cannot find a death for an Amelia Morgan that fits.   (Think she was b c 1751)   Although there is a burial 3 May 1784 of an Emily/Emely Morgan of St Andrews Holborn...... 

If that IS her, it definitely rules out John as being John of the Inner Temple, as Richard son of John & Sarah was b c 1780
Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 25 March 21 21:21 GMT (UK) »
Quote
What we need is the death post 1818 of another John Morgan, solicitor , old enough to be working in 1775. (John of the inner Temple would have been 84 by 1818).

And there is, in 1821 the death of John, solicitor of Bedford Square.  He has a will.  Only nephews mentioned. 
Executor is Francis Morgan.
Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline OrganicJohn

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #24 on: Monday 29 March 21 14:47 BST (UK) »
It does look pretty certain that John Morgan of the Inner Temple was a different person to the John Morgan involved with Watkin Lewes. But was David Walter Morgan related to John Morgan of the Inner Temple. I was led to believe he was but cannot re find the evidence.
Morgan in London.Brimmell in Gloucester.Truman in London and Norfolk.Spratt in London,Stroud,and U.S.A.Berriman in London,Cornwall,and Australia.Steer in London.Blackburn in Essex.

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #25 on: Friday 23 April 21 08:18 BST (UK) »
Just adding this for future reference and thoughts.

After John of the Inner Temple died, his son Richard seems to have administered his estate and on Feb 3rd 1804 the Inner Temple records have

"Mr Edward Hobson Vitruvius Lawes, a member aged 22 last 29 Dec, to be admitted on the assignment  to the chamber two pair up south in the second staircase in Inner Temple Lane for his own life, on the nomination of Mr Richard Morgan , son and administrator of the late John Morgan, Esquire, a barrister of this Society, paying the usual £5 for the same."

The baptism of Edward Hobson... gives parents as Edward and Frances..

But LAWES is the surname of John Luttrell-Olmius's mother (Judith Maria LAWES daughter of Sir Nicholas LAWES, Gov of Jamaica) so I am wondering if there is a connection there. Although so far I have not found it.

Added - and it is looking less likely  >:(

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/person/view/2146652865
There are LAWES in Norwich too.   
Side tracked to a friend’s very interesting Norfolk families. MORGAN, PRATT, HORNOR, SUCKLING, GLEANE etc. And in London DOWNES, du CROZ, MORGAN (same MORGANs as the Norwich lot)

Offline OrganicJohn

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Re: Too many Morgans!
« Reply #26 on: Friday 23 April 21 12:06 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the extra information
Morgan in London.Brimmell in Gloucester.Truman in London and Norfolk.Spratt in London,Stroud,and U.S.A.Berriman in London,Cornwall,and Australia.Steer in London.Blackburn in Essex.