Author Topic: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families  (Read 14981 times)

Offline HarrisonHart

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
I am having lots of troubles but immediate trouble with tracing info on my Granny Annie Harrison whose maiden name was HART.

My Grandparents were William James 'Jimmy' Harrison and Annie (Nee Hart).
The married in St Francis of Assisi RC church in 1919 and had 11 kids. 

My Grandad WJ 'Jimmy' Harrison was from Garston, his parents Catherine (Kate) Gill and Edward (Ned) Harrison Lived next to each other in Vulcan Street (numbers 5 and 7) before marrying in St Francis of Assisi RC Church in 1895.

My Grandad WJ 'Jimmy' Harrison and Granny Annie Harrison (Nee Hart) always lived under the bridge in the married lives, in Vulcan Street to start with and ultimately 80 King St.  So from the 1920s to the 1970s thats where they lived as a couple with their kids.  Well grandad died in 1960 and in the 70s granny moved to the tenniments and there passed away in 1981.

I know of one sibling for Grandad - Emily (Nee Harrison; Wife of Tommy Mcnamara) (they also lived under the bridge)

And one sibling for Granny - Mary (Nee Hart; Wife of Andrew Doolan, married in 1912) (also lived under the bridge I think)

In both cases - No idea if there were more siblings. 

It seems Mary Hart was born in about 1893.  And my Granny Annie Hart was apparently born in 1894ish, if I believe the newspaper obituarys I have which say she died in 1981 aged 87. 
I personally wonder if Annie was born more like 1896/7/8.  My dad thought his mother was born in 1897 but doesn't know why he thought that.

Its of little value but it seems my grandad was born in 1895 so if the obituarys of granny are right, granny was about a year and a half to two years older than grandad.  And if she WAS born in 1894 she didn't marry till she was 25 and still went on to have 11 kids, the youngest when she was 46  ???  I struggle to see it.  Makes more sense to me that she married aged 20/21/22 and was at most 41/42/43 when pregnant with her youngest. 22 years of having kids every 2 years!

I am really struggling to place Mary and Annie in either the 1901 or 1911 census.  Its possible by the 1911 census that Mary was independent I guess, or that both Mary and Annie were in Industrial Schools by then and registered as separate inmates? (struggling to get my head around whether industrial schools were schools or 'homes' for poor and orphaned kids)

But where were they in 1901? Even if 1911 is difficult to figure out, 1901 should not be.

My dad thinks that they either came from Garston or Woolton.  The reason for thinking of woolton is tenuous but still, possible.  Its that granny went completely deaf in her younger years working in the bobbin works in Garston.  This meant she didn't keep very up to date with the world, and kept to just the people she knew (she had loads of kids, lived next to the Vic pub and knew plenty of people in King Street to keep her busy).  Yet dad recalls her getting visits off someone known as 'the bear of Woolton'... possibly a person with mental health issues.  She referred to him AS ' the bear of Woolton ' which means she knew him before she went deaf.  It piqued dads interest that she referred to this man as such, and in any event - why would someone from Woolton come to visit her when Garston had always been her home and she never had reason to leave there or make associations out of the area as an adult?  He seems to have been someone possibly from her childhood.

I found a Mary and Annie, children to a Thomas and Maria which MIGHT fit.  Mary being born in St Helens in about 1893, Annie being born in Garston in about 1896/7 and them all living in Much Woolton in the 1901 census, where Maria was from; Thomas being from 'Liverpool'.  Fits except for Annies alleged birth being in 1894.

Theres also a couple of Mary and Annie Harts being children in L'pool and Lancashire in general, but none fitting Annie being born in 1894.

If anyone has ideas.  Knows anything about these people.  Knows REALLY old people (affectionately speaking LOL.  I should say 'Wise Elders' from under the bridge) from King Street area that might know my relatives.  Or can shed light on the bear of woolton - let me know!
 
Looking to make contact with ALL RELATIVES so please get in touch if you are related or know of my family.

PS I was born and live in Australia and only spent a bit of time in Garston over the years, none at all since the mid 90s, so whilst passionate about the place, my knowledge of it is incomplete (so if you know anything, give lots of detail haha)  :)
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 24,483
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 15 June 13 16:03 BST (UK) »
I guess, or that both Mary and Annie were in Industrial Schools by then and registered as separate inmates? (struggling to get my head around whether industrial schools were schools or 'homes' for poor and orphaned kids)
Welcome to RootsChat
An industrial school was a residential school established under the Reformatories and Industrial Schools Act 1857 to provide vocational education   for children in need in England and Wales. Merged with reformatories to create the approved school system in 1933.
Children were lodged, clothed and fed, as well as taught in the schools. Industrial schools were chiefly for vagrant and neglected children and children not convicted of theft. They wanted preventive, not punitive treatment, and for them Industrial Schools were instituted. Such schools were for children up to the age of fourteen, and the limit of detention was sixteen. They were regulated by the Children Act 1908, which repealed the Industrial Schools Act 1866, as amended by Acts of 1872,1891 and 1901. See http://www.workhouses.org.uk/IS/

Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline heatherjulie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,229
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 15 June 13 16:31 BST (UK) »
Hi
Do you have your grandmother's marriage certificate? It should hopefully show her father's name.

Heather

Offline HarrisonHart

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 15 June 13 16:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the welcome and for explaining that Stan.  Helps me with my grandad too as I think he was in an industrial school as he told my dad he was somewhere where they would lock him up and pass food thru a hole in the door and whip him over the hands, but it was not prison, and was as a young boy/teen.

Hi
Do you have your grandmother's marriage certificate? It should hopefully show her father's name.

Heather

Not yet Heather, I have about 60-80 cousins so am working through them trying to find the original before purchasing a copy.  I also have a bad feeling her dad wont be listed on it, due to the trouble I am having finding them on the censuses and the fact nobody in the family seems to know anything about grannys family.  Should just bight the bullet and buy the certificate but then if a relative has it I will feel a bit stupid LOL.

Angela
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.

Offline Radcliff

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,106
  • Crown Copywrite on all census material,
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 15 June 13 21:22 BST (UK) »
1901 census Garston,
RG13/3507
Catherine Doolan,aged 38,born Ireland,
Andrew Doolan aged 16,general labourer born Ireland
Anna S Doolan aged 14
Catherine Doolan aged 10,
Annie Doolan aged 8
Francis Doolan aged 6,
Bridget Doolan aged 5,
Mary Doolan aged 3
Patrick Doolan aged 2
Margaret Doolan aged 11 months
all children born Garston,with the exception of Andrew,


1891 census has Andrew with his parents in Garston,father John,
Gunning County Down,Kneale Isle of Man,Riddle Tynemouth,Bibby Kendal/Bradford,Colenso Penzance/Barrow-in-Furness,Steele Corney Fell,Chapman Ely,Dawes Alfreton,Blamire Westmoreland and Ulverston
Dislike the use of P Messaging system, unless its of a sensitive nature, Rootschat is  an open forum,

Offline freddiebean

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 317
  • Jessie May Rhodes
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 15 June 13 21:38 BST (UK) »
I think these are the details you have pondered over
1901 Rodick st, Much Woolton
Thomas Hart 40yrs born in Ireland
Maria 32 born Woolton
Mary 8yrs born St Helens
Annie 4yrs born Garston

This you might find worth having a look at

The girls have a slight name change 10 years later to Maria and Anna, Thomas still states he came from a place in Ireland  and Maria is in the factory that her sister Annie goes into :) I think your dad could be right about Annie's birth date...see what you think. sorry due to copy rights I'm unable to give you the details.pm me if you cant find them.
 Forgot to say you need to make at least three postings to send PMs
RHODES  - Dudley, Lye & Kidderminster
PHILLIPS - Dudley
EVANS     - Kidderminster, Worcestershire
ROACH & POUNTNEY  -  Worcestershire
GODDARD (Peter Holland) England
BISHOP   - Shipton Moyne,Tetbury
DAVIS     -  Miserden, Gloucestershire

SEALY/SEALEY - Taunton, Somerset

Offline HarrisonHart

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 16 June 13 06:22 BST (UK) »
I hope I didn't breach copyright by how I mentioned the first census. 
Yes it was Ireland for Thomas, I meant to come back in and adjust.

Name changes to Maria and Anna essentially rules them out.  Which is a shame as I was even more keen on them today, having spoken to a much older cousin who remembers his mother (much older than my dad) saying her mum came from Woolton. 

Plus my eldest uncle and Aunty are Thomas and Mary (Mary being both Annie harts sisters name, and also Maria Harts (Nee Cannon) Mothers name I believe). 

My Grandfathers parents also make it to the list of kids; Catherine (katie) being third born and John E (probably Edward?) being sixth born

(After Annie E and William J who were named after their own parents).

When I did a search of BDM I possibly uncovered another new lead.  I searched for all Harrisons born with mothers maiden name being Hart, in Lancashire between 1919 and 1940.  All my uncles and aunties were there, along with a dozen others who aren't, peppered between.

However between my eldest uncle (Thomas), and my eldest Aunty (Mary), there was room for one other child to fit in.  And the one birth that did fit in, was for an Ellen.  So if the Woolton lead is incorrect, I'd be wondering if Ellen is actually the name of my Grannys mother. 

Thomas Harrison Jul-Aug-Sep 1919 West Derby Lancashire (my uncle tommy)

***View Record Ellen Harrison Oct-Nov-Dec 1921 West Derby Lancashire*** not a known relative but curious.

Mary J Harrison Jan-Feb-Mar 1923 West Derby Lancashire ***Mary Jane? (my aunty mary)

Catherine Harrison Oct-Nov-Dec 1924 Liverpool Lancashire (my auntie Katie)

Annie W Harrison Oct-Nov-Dec 1926 Liverpool Lancashire ***Annie Winifred (my aunty annie)

William J Harrison Oct-Nov-Dec 1928 Liverpool Lancashire ****James? (my uncle Jimmy)

John E Harrison Jan-Feb-Mar 1931 Liverpool Lancashire ***John Edward? (my uncle johnny)

Joseph Harrison Jan-Feb-Mar 1933 Liverpool Lancashire (my uncle joey)

Frederick Harrison Jan-Feb-Mar 1935 Liverpool South Lancashire (my uncle freddie)

Alfred Harrison Oct-Nov-Dec 1936 Liverpool South Lancashire (my dad still alive)

Emily Harrison Apr-May-Jun 1938 Liverpool South Lancashire (my auntie still alive)

Francis Harrison Jul-Aug-Sep 1940 Liverpool South Lancashire (frankie, died aged 1)

Thanks for your help!  And thanks for the DOOLAN lead too!  The 16 year old Andrew Doolan is the one who married my aunty Mary.
Angela, Perth, West Australia.

Harrison: Garston (L'pool), Dublin, Athlone, (Irl), Madras/Chennai and Burma (British India/India) and Sth Africa, and Australia.
Hart: Garston and Woolton (UK), Roscommon (Irl).
McC(h)rystal: Garston, Wigan, Desertmartin (Nrthn Irl), Canada, USA, Australia
Miller: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Jones: Garston and ?Ireland/?Wales
Boyle: (Derry, Irl)
Gill: Garston L'pool UK, and Ireland.
Cannon: Woolton and Roscommon
Callaghan: Unknown.
And more.

Offline garstonite

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,551
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 16 June 13 07:55 BST (UK) »
Ooooh -this is going to be fun...
be back in a minute - let me check my tree ...my dads nan was a McNamara ...my wifes cousin married a Harrison - I know a lot of Doolans /Harts ...I am born and bred Garston - I am 62  and there`s not many people in Garston that I don`t know - or they don`t know me .....back soon

allan ......ask your dad does he remember the Oakes family ?
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline garstonite

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,551
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Garston (under the bridge) ** Hart ** Harrison Doolan and Mcnamara families
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 16 June 13 08:02 BST (UK) »
OK...Mcnamara = my family in Garston
Denis Mcnamara married my g grandmother Zipporah Walker ( nee Williamson ) she was my dads nan
children
Denis 1906
Veronica 1909
Margaret 1912
are any of these in your tree ?

allan
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford