PIPE / CLAYTON Marriages and children

[cordley]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that. 

I am having trouble finding the death of Emily Marie PIPE (nee Sadbrook, b 1884) so that Sheridan Walter PIPE (Jnr) is free to marry again in 1931??

I had assumed Emily died in 1957
(ref FreeBMD - Deaths Mar 1957  PIPE    Emily M    73    Essex S.W.    5a   294) which gives her dob as 1884.

I also have three Sheridan W PIPE's deaths as
Deaths Mar 1938  Pipe    Sheridan W    77    Hackney    1b   397      - ie born c 1861
Deaths Jun 1957  PIPE    Sheridan W    73    Romford    5a   386    - ie born c 1884
Deaths Dec 1958   PIPE    Sheridan W    50    Stepney    5d   598 - ie born c 1908
but can only find two births (our Snr and Jnr)  - who is the third??  I had thought he might be the one marrying Charlotte Clayton in 1931.

Where am I going wrong?  What am I missing?

Pam

[mcmp]

Pam, the plot thickens!
Yes, as far as I know the death record in 1957 is her.  I have not found a divorce yet, and I have lost contact with the researcher who gave me the details.  I have contacted a Sadgrove researcher in the hopes that he will have an answer.
My wife's gt grandfather married three times without a divorce!!

As for Sheridan W Pipe d 1958, b 1908, I know he appears on the GRO index, but there is no such person on the 1911 census, and as you say, there is no birth record for him, so I am at a loss.  I think I will get a copy of the death cert to see what it says.  I will let you know when I get it.
Michael

[cordley]

Oh I never thought of that - what a simple life I must lead!

Look forward to info from the death certificate.

Thanks

Pam

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There's a court report in the papers in 1936 - haven't got a sub to access the full article

 "Sheridan Walter Pipe, Hoe Street, Walthamstow, trading a.s Jack William Clayton, house furnisher, North Street, Romford, was summoned for failing to pay National Health... "

Guess whichever one it was was working for/had taken on his father in law's business

i can only guess that somewhere there's been an unofficial adoption or change of name for the child b 1908 to become Sheridan Walter no 3

[cordley]

Intriguing.  Almost all the right bits - but fitting them together...

As I see it we have

William John Clayton m Charlotte Reeves; children Charlotte and Rosina.
Sheridan Walter Pipe (Snr) m Frances Beasley; children incl Sheridan Walter PIPE (Jnr)
Sheridan Walter Pipe (Jnr) m(1) Emily Sadgrove; children incl Reginal Marcus PIPE

Sheridan (Jnr) marries(2) Charlotte Clayton in 1931 (even though not a widower)
Reginald (son of Sheridan Jnr) marries Rosina (Charlotte's sister) in 1934

ie father and son marry two sisters.  There are a series of children to a PIPE/Clayton union (FreeBMD) but without certificates we cannot sort them out.

We then have a business called 'Jack William Clayton' which in 1936 is being run by Sheridan Walter PIPE.  SWP Snr dies in 1938, SWP Jnr dies in 1957.  [I cannot trace a Jack William Clayton who would have been the owner of the business.  Jack is often a nickname for John???]

In 1936 it seems that SWP Snr is living with his daughter Doris Pipe in Kingland Rd, Hackney - so it is unlikely that this is the house furnisher.  So the implication is that this is either SWP Jnr or the unknown SWP.

We have an unidentified Sheridan Walter PIPE who dies in 1958 at the age of 50 but we can find no birth record in 1908, nor any census record, maybe the death cert will clarify...

Mabel, Michael - are you connected at all closely to this part of the PIPE-line??  I am interested in descendents of SWP Snr particularly.

Regards

Pam

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Charlotte and Rosina's father was William John Clayton, so could Jack William be from him? company?


No connection to the family - just enjoy a challenge!

[mcmp]

Only very distant connection – Sheridan Walter snr is my 4th cousin 4 times removed, according to my genealogy software.

As for the offspring of Sheridan Walter Pipe & Frances Beasley, you probably have these already.   I have not followed these lines far , so details are scant:  There may be errors, but I think it is correct.

Frances b 1884 - married 1905 Henry Carter
        Children: Henry Robert 1907, James Howard 1908, Sheridan John 1910, maybe more

Sheridan Walter b 1884
          Children 1st marriage:  Marie Violet  b 1902 m 1920 Sidney Silverton, Ivy Frances b 1904 m 1923 William Cowell Kirby, Florence Gladys b 1906 m 1926 Albert Grimsdale, Reginald Marcus b 1910 m 1934 Rosina Eleanor Clayton, Thora P b 1912 m 1932 Frederick W Goodenough, Irene D b 1913 m 1934 Sidney Crutchett.
           Children 2nd Marriage: Derek Sheridan b 1931 m 1956 Barbara A Rose

Charles Henry b 1886 - m 1905 Alice Blythe Palmer
        Children:  Charles Josiah 1905, Alice Elizabeth 1908, Leonard Alfred 1910, Albert Osmond 1912, Sheridan George 1913.
         
Doris b 1890 - m 1915 Lewis Levy

John Marcus b 1896 - m 1920 Pauline Da Costa
          Child: Una Pipe 1921

Albert Edward b 1901 – no information after 1901 census

You probably have most of this already, but maybe there are a few additional pieces for you.

Michael

[cordley]

Thank you both for your input and help - yes, a few new facts, but also confirming a lot of what I had found out, which is always pleasing!

I believe Albert Edward PIPE b 1901, married Mary M Lambell in 1925.

Thanks again

Pam

[mcmp]

Pam, I have received a copy of the death certificate for Sheridan Walter Pipe, died 1958 age 50, for whom we can find no birth record.  All it has done is to raise a further problem.  The informant is D S Pipe, who I think must be Derek Sheridan Pipe, who we had as the son of Charlotte Clayton, supposed second wife of Sheridan Walter Pipe b 1884.
So far so good, but then this D S Pipe says that he is the son of Sheridan Walter Pipe for whom I have this death certificate.
I think I must check the marriage of Charlotte Clayton in 1931, and the birth cert of Derek S Pipe, unless you already have copies - can you let me know.  Then maybe things might add up - perhaps!!

Michael