Author Topic: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families  (Read 22390 times)

Offline allesond

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #27 on: Friday 28 June 13 02:07 BST (UK) »
Thank you.

Offline allesond

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 29 June 13 17:42 BST (UK) »
Good Morning from Westeren Canada,

I was looking on Glasnevin and I cannot find the record for the 1901 d. of Nicholas fox that you referenced.

Thanks for all your help,
Alleson

Offline allesond

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 29 June 13 22:06 BST (UK) »
Very excited about Glasnevin Records!!!

Glasnevin Grave Location:
Letter: LI
Figures: 212
Section: ST. BRIDGET'S

CATHERINE  FOX , died 1st Mar 1893 Convulsions; informant Nicholas Fox
Age: 16 month
STEVEDORE'S CHILD
5 HOGANS AVENUE GREAT CLARENCE STREET  DUBLIN 
T49649
View entry image

MARGARET  FOX , died 18th Oct 1894 Bright’s Disease;  informant Nicholas Fox
Age:30
STEVEDORE'S WIFE
12 UPPER GRAND CANAL STREET  SIR P DUNS HOSPITAL  DUBLIN 
Record number:
T56019
View entry image

ANNIE  SMYTH , died 21st Apr 1895 Pneumonia; informant Nicholas Fox
Age:17
LABOURER'S DAUGHTER
Marital status:
17 NORTH GLOUCESTER PLACE  MATER M HOSPITAL  DUBLIN 
Record number:
T58568
View entry image

MARY  DEANE , died 11th Dec 1873
Age:50
Gender:
SERVANT
Marital status:
Last address:
17 PEMBROKE ROAD  DUBLIN 
V11149
View entry image

I could not attach records as they were too large individually.
Have yet to figure out how to get GRO records with mailing them in.

The 1901 Nicholas Fox did not appear to connect as he was married (not widowed) laborer and Mary Fox was informant of different address.

***Excited, Alleson***

Offline dathai

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 29 June 13 23:33 BST (UK) »
well nicholas fox seem to have disappeared as i cant find him on 1901 census of ireland or england or his daughter margaret,the annie smyth buried there is probably marianna smyth born feb 1878 of james smyth and mary shelly.the deane burial is most likely not related,as far as i know when a person was buried then their family had 5 years to buy out the plot if not it then reverted back to being property of prospect cemetery.


Offline allesond

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 30 June 13 00:21 BST (UK) »
Dathai,

I have been adding all these characters to my tree Stewart/Ball/Walker/Fox/Scott/Flack/Gillone on ancestry, which makes it easier to search, and am choosing to believe, until I can prove otherwise:

1. Nicholas and Michaelis Fox are the same person
2. Catherine Fox and Alicia (Alice) Fox are sisters, as well as Margaret Mary Fox. Alicia (Alice) married in Liverpool in 1919 and so did Margaret (Keith Stewart). (I was named Alice when I was b. hmmm)
3. A couple of reasons our family might not have known Margaret's mother's name is she was too young when her mother died, and she lived elsewhere with other people or an orphanage, possibly not with her father.
4. After his wife died Nicholas may have not had the capacity to raise young girls. Or maybe he sailed away.
5. I found Margaret Shelly's (Fox) nephew Thomas Joseph Shelly crossing the border in Detroit to Canada in 1926 and he is listed as b. in 1898 in Dublin and his mother as Annie and wife as Mary. Other family could have exited Ireland for Canada.

Regarding the marriage certificate you purchased, I wonder if the occupation of porter can relate to shipping and then Nicholas advanced to stevedore. I also wonder how and where you got the marriage certificate (thank you and how can I repay), as I was looking at GRO Ireland today which is difficult to navigate payment.

I have just started to add Smith/Smyth to my tree starting with Mary Shelly and husband unknown Smith.  I see you have Mary Shelly as James Smyth's spouse. I will follow that lead.

And of course, we cousins have had no luck in tracking Nicholas Fox with many wrong turns and starting again and again. He may have just picked up and left. The only reference to him is the marriage of Margaret and Keith 1919 where he is deceased and a Master Mariner.

Thank you!!
Alleson

Offline allesond

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Fox birth/death records Fox/Shelly
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 16 July 13 16:22 BST (UK) »
Discouraged after talking with Civil Registration Dublin this am. They cannot find the birth records of Margt Mary Fox (April 19, 1890), Catherine Fox (June 27, 1891), or Alicia Fox (Sept 21, 1894)..

(Mother) Margt Fox (Shelly) death record, Mar 1 1894, lists husband as "Foreman for Wallace Brown." Glasnevin lists Margt as wife of Stevedore."

On Catherine Fox's death record her mother is listed, but not father. Glasnevin lists daughter of Stevedore.

allesond

Offline allesond

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 20 July 13 16:35 BST (UK) »
Another bit of information, which points to Nicholas and Michaelis as the same name or person:

Of Margaret, Catherine, and Alicia Fox, the only one whose father is listed as Nicholas is Alicia; the other two have their father listed as Michael or Michaelis in Irish Geneology. Today I looked at a record I have seen many times over in the Liverpool Catholic Marriages listing on Ancestry and here the known Nicolas Fox is listed as Michaelis:

Alice (Alicia) Fox
Marriage Date: 1 Aug 1919
Parish: St Mary of the Angels
Spouse's Name: Adam Alexander
Father's Name: Michaelis Fox
Mother's Name: Margaritae Fox
Spouse Father's Name: Joannis Alexander
Spouse Mother's Name: Mariae Alexander

I have ordered the marriage cert of Alice and Adam to find more specific info on both their parents.

Alleson

Offline allesond

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #34 on: Monday 16 September 13 23:35 BST (UK) »
I am so intrigued by the Nicolaus & Margarita Fox parents of Alicia Fox m. to Adam Alexander.

I just looked at the August 1st 1919 Catholic marriage record, on Ancestry.

We know from Alicia's baptism that her father is Nicolaus.
We know from the last column inscription that she married Adam Alexander in 1919.
Alice Fox
Marriage Date: 1 Aug 1919
Parish: St Mary of the Angels
Spouse's Name: Adam Alexander
Father's Name: Michaelis Fox
Mother's Name: Margaritae Fox
Spouse Father's Name: Joannis Alexander
Spouse Mother's Name: Mariae Alexander


Yet, when I read the father's name in the handwritten record, I too looks like Michael, actually, Michaelis. In fact, the transcription reads Michaelis and Margaritae.

Comparing the M's to N's, the m's are different than on Michaelis.

I now believe that Margaret Mary Fox's father could be Nicholas even though Michael is listed as father. Either way, I will check out all leads.

Thank you all!!

Moderator Note : Edit to show extracts of relevant image
Another bit of information, which points to Nicholas and Michaelis as the same name or person:

Of Margaret, Catherine, and Alicia Fox, the only one whose father is listed as Nicholas is Alicia; the other two have their father listed as Michael or Michaelis in Irish Geneology. Today I looked at a record I have seen many times over in the Liverpool Catholic Marriages listing on Ancestry and here the known Nicolas Fox is listed as Michaelis:

Alice (Alicia) Fox
Marriage Date: 1 Aug 1919
Parish: St Mary of the Angels
Spouse's Name: Adam Alexander
Father's Name: Michaelis Fox
Mother's Name: Margaritae Fox
Spouse Father's Name: Joannis Alexander
Spouse Mother's Name: Mariae Alexander

I have ordered the marriage cert of Alice and Adam to find more specific info on both their parents.

Alleson

I have the Marriage Certificate from Alice Fox and Adam Alexander (which reference is in margin of Alicia Fox Church baptism). Nicholas Fox on her baptism and Michael Fox on her marriage cert (deceased).

I have put together this entire family of Fox and now still wondering if they are mine.

Please see table for more clarity.

Thanks,
Alleson

Offline taramcdsmall

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Re: Information appreciated for Fox/Shelly & Shelly/Whitty families
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 09 November 13 20:24 GMT (UK) »
Just looking at this from a different angle

IF you are happy to say that Nicholas Fox and Margaret Shelly are the parents of your Grandmother Margaret and making the presumption that Margaret then decided to 'elaborate' on her father's profession and 'promoted' him from Stevedore to Master Mariner

Then

If you look at the marriage of Nicholas and Margaret it says that Nicholas' parent's were William Fox and Julia Byrne

This then would be Nicholas' baptism and so all other references to this man as Michael can only be mistranscriptions OR lack of knowledge on his daughters part ...

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/be65020221223

Other children born to William Fox and Julia Byrne

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/835a4f0231684
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/d154fd0223925
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/91dd1c0183159
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a93d9c0226570

marriage of William Fox and Julia Byrne

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/5872d60017154

ALSO

You referred in another message to Margaret's second name - it sounds like another mistranscription on Teresa / Theresa

Tara