Death notie/Obituary

[Marilyn_Warburt]

Hello again Jane and many thanks for all the digging you have been doing. It is much appreciated.
That was me who put that message on Curious Fox lol quite a few years ago!
Yes quite a few discrepancies in the Census...now in 1911 it says Dundee ...strange.
Anyway I just thought the actual burial records might have a date of birth rather than the gravestone.
Usually they do.  I have tried to find baptisms for other Williams but to no avail and I know a few others have tried and because he seems to fit the criteria they have added it to their tree with no factual evidence. There were lots of William McBrides but of course he was Bride and his father was William not John. He possibly Anglicised his name for employment purposes... he may have been Irish. A guy who was researching him said the family story was that his mother was an Irish Gypsy and that was not Jane Kirk!
Also there was a Crosshill in Kirkudbrightshire from what I can gather so he may have been born there. I feel I have to do the proving since it is me saying he is not the William in our family...it is
most frustrating to see people put information on Ancestry that is incorrect even though they mean well.
Thank you again Jane ..if you ever need to help someone looking for NZ info please don't hesitate to ask me.
regards and best wishes
Marilyn

[Jane Masri]

Hi Marylin,
Don't forget that William's son filled out that 1911 census.  He may or may not have asked where he had been born, just put down Dundee 
Maybole, Crosshill & Kirkoswald all seem to be pretty close to each other.
Have you considered that the fathers name on that marriage certificate could have been a mistake?  It wouldn't have been the first time!
It's odd that his marriage gives his name as BRIDE but all censuses have him as McBride, could that be an error also???

Jane

[Marilyn_Warburt]

Hi Jane

Yes, it is always possible but all the family of Jane/Jean Kirk and John McBride  changed their surname to Douglas and Jane/Jean to Kirkland after John her husband apparently committed suicide and all but two moved up to Lanarkshire  including William who moved in with my great grandmother and was there in the 1861 Census and he was killed in the boiler explosion a year later.
On the register of corrected entries it says he was taken to his mother Jeanie Kirkland Douglas house where he died so this Surrey William cannot be John and Janes son.  I have nearly all the birth, death and marriage records from Scotlands People for this family and there is no doubt of the name change and have also had the help of a professional researcher so thats why its important for me to show the other family that they have the wrong parents for their William.
It is most frustrating
Marilyn

[Jane Masri]

Marilyn, I would say you've got very convincing evidence that this Surrey William is NOT the son of John & Jane without having to find his burial!  I'm so surprised that all those people on Ancestry have overlooked the fact that on his marriage certificate he says his father was WILLIAM (I looked at the image on Ancestry to check) Also he gives & signs as BRIDE.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over this, instead put up a small tree on Ancestry with your findings & include an image of his death certificate which, being Scottish, includes loads of details.  If that doesn't convince them nothing will!
Can you give me details of the 1861 census please, I'd like to see it (I presume it's in the name of Douglas?)

Jane

[Marilyn_Warburt]

Hi Jane
It is the Census of Mossend and is under the names of John Cochrane, his wife Helen/Ellen and several children including and William Douglas aged about 18. Some of the Cochrane children were born to Helen McBride and others to Douglas...(Helen/Ellen interchanegeable too) She was Williams elder sister.
I agree, my evidence is convincing but I really don't think and of those people who have those trees have his death or marriage cert. One of his descendants who has NZ connections  agrees with me, he was the original researcher.  Trouble is his wife is very ill.  I have a copy of the marriage cert here. The date they give on Ancestry for the birth of William son of John and Jane is actually for their son John Jnr and I have a copy of that too. I guess I could send an email to them all (using copy and paste). I mean all the other info on their tree is OK just those parents and his date of birth is wrong....
Jane, thanks so much for your help and advice, its really kind of you and I am VERY grateful

Marilyn

[Jane Masri]

Found William in 1851( with parents at 'Largy' Kirkmichael, Ayr) & 1861(with sister at Mossend, Bothwell, Lanark) His DOB seems to be about 1841-1843, Maybole, Ayr.  So far am I correct?
Couldn't find a baptism for him on Familysearch but found others attributed to John McBride & Jane/Jean Kirk including, William McBride born 11/5/1839, Kirkoswald, Ayr, which is the one the Ancestry people have on their trees.  Getting confused    Did John & Jane have two sons named William, the first dying & the second (yours) named after him?
Also found reference in a newspaper article online to that Mossend explsion.  It only mentioned three men being injured & William wasn't amongst them 
Maybe I'm missing something here?

Jane

[Jane Masri]

Marilyn, found the family in 1841 at Crosshill Bruce Square, Kirkmichael.  There is a son William age 2 with them which ties-in with the Familysearch entry of a son William born 1839.
Either there were two William's as per my theory above or the ages on the 1841 & 1851 censuses are several years off 

Jane

[Marilyn_Warburt]

Hi Jane
Thank you for your interest in helping me...two heads etc etc ...I have all of those Census and it was while my researcher was searching in Maybole for a marriage for Helen DOUGLAS and John Cochrane as per my great grans marriage cert and several of the childrens baptisms that she realised there was not one there only for one of Helen McBride and JC.  Also all the names were the same as Helens family and grandparents and this is where we realised what had happened. Jane was in Maybole in 1861 under McBride with her younger children Hannah and Robert and a grandson Andrew Dick 5 yrs then we find her in 1871 under Douglas with Andrew 15 yrs....
I believe there was lot of wrong info in 1841 with ages being rounded off and yes, I think a William may have died and a sibling named for him as was tradition.
I have the death record for him but the wrong name was given for his mother however I think it was the informants mother when asked by the registrar he would have just said mother and the guy would have given his mothers name. On the cert, it has see Register of Corrected Entries and
there it says died in his mothers house after being injured in the explosion..I also have a copy of the newspaper report where several men were killed and a poem written about "The Terrific Explosion at Mossend" 1863. I could send the poem but am not sure how to attach it to this sorry.
A William was born in 1839 not a John as I just checked the OPR that I have but I feel that one may have died hence the baptism or just worng dates.
Its quite fascinating and good to have another person to mull things over with
Thank you again Jane

[Jane Masri]

Yes, it is a fascinating piece of research, it's certainly caught my attention 
You seem more familiar with Scottish research (I'm not) but it might be a good idea to search for a possible death/burial for the younger William McBride, if there was one.
All these places, Kirkmichael, Crosshill & Maybole etc, all seem very close to each other so not sure which church they might have used.  Did you find the baptism of your Michael or is that 1839 entry the only one found?

Jane