Arrundel castle

[anneelaine]

Hi
Can anyone help please friend from Australia staying with us is doing family tree when she is here
She says that David Victor Howard born around 1900 and went to Australia 1908 she says that her family belongs to Arundel castle sussex
David Victor Howard   has Paintings off his  Ansesters in Arundel castle?
Some help for you  brothers and sister
David  V Howard
Reginald Howard
Albert Howard
And  Phyllis Howard Lillian Howard all one family
Mother was Caroline Blanch Stevens
HELP please thanks
Anneelaine

[Liz_in_Sussex]

Hi Anneelaine,

The family name of the Duke of Norfolk, whose seat is Arundel Castle, is Fitzalan-Howard so I would say that it is very likely that if your friend is in some way descended from a Howard they are likely to be related to the the current Duke - Edward Fitzalan-Howard who is the 18th to hold that title. 

The family is the most prominent Catholic family in Britain and the Duke represents the Queen when it would not be appropriate for her as the Head of the Church of England to do so - for example I remember Edward's Dad, Miles (Duke until his death in 2002), went to Rome during the time when there were 2 Popes in quick succession in 1978.

I have quite a bit of information on the family  and will have a look to see if I can place David Victor Howard in the family.

Liz

ADDED: I should mention that succession in the 20th C has not been straightforward - although Edward took the title from his father, Miles was second cousin or something of the previous Duke (Bernard), so your friend's relationship to the current Duke may be quite complicated!

[Liz_in_Sussex]

Hi again, 

I have found the marriage of David Victor's parents - Charles Howard and Caroline Blanche Stevens at Pancras, London in Dec quarter 1901.  Unfortunately this means they are not together on the 1901 census.  However I did find them still in England in 1911, living in Kentish Town, London with 4 of their 5 children (the fifth has died).  Charles is a Grocer's Assistant.

James 8 yrs
Alfred 6 yrs
David 3 yrs - this is David Victor and he was registered also in Pancras district in the June quarter 1907.
Reginald 1 yr

I assume they must have gone out to Australia after this.

Tracking back through previous census entries suggests the family, at least during Victorian times, was of humble means. 

However throughout the 19th century they were living at Edlesborough (near Dunstable) - and this is significant because in the 17th Century the Howards had owned land there and also married into the Fountain family - I am only guessing here, but I would imagine that as the families were so large - as with most aristocratic English families, there were always some sons who ended up as ag labs etc and that David Victor Howard is descended from one such.

I am not sure who David's most recent common ancestor is that he shares with the current Duke of Norfolk - but I would probably be looking in the 16th / 17th centuries in. 

Liz

[KGarrad]

The Dukes of Norfolk have been FitzAlan-Howard since the early 1800's.

The 13th Duke was Henry Howard (1791-1856); his children were all FitzAlan-Howard.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Howard,_13th_Duke_of_Norfolk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Norfolk

So, it looks any link has to be before 1800?

[anneelaine]

Thanks guy for info
Anneelaine

[anneelaine]

Hi,
just been sent this I am so lost with it

Charles howard born march 1880 Kilburn London. Married Caroline stevens dec 1901 st pancras. Died 27th june 1950 perth.
James howard born 25th december 1846 edlesborough. Married Ann Forster december 1869 Leighton Buzzard. Died december 1900 St Pancras.
James howard. Christened 7th june 1812. Married Ann Fountain 20th november Edlesborough. Died march 1889 Leighton Buzzard Buckinghamshire.
Thomas howard christened 6th september 1778 Edelsborough, married Sarah Stronell 25th february1805 Amersham buckinghamshire
Thomas Howard married Elizabeth Goodman 29th march 1771 edelsborough buckinghamshire.
AE

[anneelaine]

Liz_in_Sussex
Hi just been told that David Victor Howard born in England to Caroline Blanche Howard (nee Stevens)
My grandfather apparently got a book from the castle and he was listed in it.
my friend  just said
 just asked did she know what book it was
AE

[KGarrad]

David's birth registration (as per the GRO Index Site):

HOWARD, DAVID  VICTOR      Mother's Maiden Name: STEVENS      
GRO Reference: 1907  J Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 136
 

Parents marriage?
December qtr 1901
St Pancras Registration District     vol 1b, page 90

Howard, Charles
Stevens, Caroline Blanche

[KGarrad]

1911 census (from FamilySearch):

St. Pancras, Kentish Town NW, London

Howard, Charles  Head  M  31  Grocer's Assistant  b Kilburn
Howard, Caroline  Wife  F  32  b Kidlington, Oxfordshire
Howard, James  Son  M  8  b St Pancras
Howard, Alfred  Son  M  6  b St Pancras
Howard, David  Son  M  3  b St Pancras
Howard, Reginald  Son  M  1  b St Pancras

Birth Registrations:
HOWARD, JAMES  ALFRED CHARLES     STEVENS        
GRO Reference: 1902  D Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 13

HOWARD, ALFRED  PERCIVAL      STEVENS      
GRO Reference: 1904  J Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 158    

HOWARD, ELSIE  AMY      STEVENS      
GRO Reference: 1906  J Quarter in ST.PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 123
(Died same quarter)

HOWARD, REGINALD  FRANK      STEVENS      
GRO Reference: 1910  J Quarter in ST. PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 112