Liffen help please

[londonliffen]

Hello everybody who has been helping me. The Birth Certificate has arrived and these are the details from it:

Born 30th June 1894 at 107 Napier Street.

Name, Frederick William, a  Boy.

Father George Robert Liffen

Mother Jane Liffen formerly Williams.

Fathers occupation was  a Carpenter

the mark of Jane liffen, Mother of 107 Napier street.

Registered 6th August 1894 in Deptford Central, Greenwich.

I hope this helps; I will get on the Tree again and investigate, although I don't ever remember Deptford being mentioned a home?

[londonliffen]

An addition to my last post-there was also a Napier Street near Long Lane in Bermondsey which is the area where they all seemed to live but the registration district was Deptford (and there was a Napier St there too).

[avm228]

Hi again Henry

The birth certificate you've got (of Frederick William Liffen, son of George Robert and Jane) is that of a different Frederick from the one who has been followed (just Frederick, no middle name, son of Frederick and Adelaide).  Obviously it's important to identify which is your Frederick. I don't think you've told us who your Frederick married? Lizdb asked about this earlier in the thread.

Anyway the Frederick William Liffen whose birth certificate you have (son of George Robert) married Alice Beatrice Oates in 1919. Would that be your man? He may have died in 1959 in Dartford.

Going on the basis of what you've previously told us in the thread (including that your Frederick died in 1951) it would seem likely that you've unfortunately ordered the wrong birth certificate. Lizdb gave index details at reply #10 for a likely birth registration for Frederick, and there's a Bermondsey death in 1951 for a Frederick Liffen with no middle name.

[londonliffen]

Thank you AVm228 for your reply. I also came to the same conclusion that I had ordered the wrong one.
I have had more information come from a family member very recently which will help.

My GF Frederick married Mary Law April -June 1917 St Olave district.. We know that she died in 1963 and was born around 1895. My Aunt Mary who has just died told me that her mother was Mary Law. I've only just remembered this when my memory was jogged.

My GF Frederick certainly died in 1951 as Aunt Mary readily remembered it was in the year of the 1951 Great Exhibition.

I remember as a child that My GM Mary Liffen lived in Avondale House Avondale Sq London which is confirmed by my cousin and on the Electoral Roll between 1948-1957.My Father Harry  appears on the Roll there too.

Mary Liffen nee Law and Frederick appear on the 1936 Electoral roll at 169 Tooley St SE1. I again know this to be true as I showed my Aunt Mary the property on Google Street view.

Regarding Alice Beatrice Oates, I came across her whilst working on the tree and I asked my recently deceased Aunt Mary who she was but she had no idea. She had a very strong memory right until her passing so I've no idea who she was yet only lived a mile or so from them all!

Thank you for your help and any further assistance would be very much appreciated.

[avm228]

I'm not surprised Aunt Mary didn't know of Alice Beatrice Oates, because Alice Beatrice Oates married Frederick William Liffen (whose birth certificate you have) and not your Frederick.

In order to make progress you'll need to order the correct birth certificate for your Frederick, using the index details provided by lizdb at reply #10. Let us know when it arrives

[londonliffen]

Hello everybody.

The Birth Certificate for my GF has arrived and would be grateful of some further help.
BIRTH 29th October 1894
NAME Frederick , a boy
FATHER Frederick Liffen
MOTHER Adelaide Liffen formerly Andrews. (Mother made a mark on cert)
ADDRESS 123 Mowbray Buildings Southwark.

Thank you all.

[jorose]

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJSX-R3F
Could this be related?

A match to this Thomas appears in the 1881 census, "single"
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQQR-D54

This would explain no later marriage to Frederick.

[avm228]

Following on from jorose's post, a possible baptism for the daughter Adelaide:

Baptism, St John the Evangelist, Walworth

5 June 1881

Adelaide Elizabeth HILLYARD, daughter of Thomas (pipe maker) and Adelaide, of Oak Cottage.

[londonliffen]

Thank you both for your prompt replies.

Am I correct in thinking that Adelaide was originally married to Thomas Hileard and they had a daughter Adelaide when she was only 15 yoa?

Presumably when Adelaide met Frederick ;Thomas was no longer around? And they never married?

Thanks for your help it's much appreciated.