Author Topic: Liffen help please  (Read 10238 times)

Online jorose

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Re: Liffen help please
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 10 October 13 01:10 BST (UK) »
As divorce was not really obtainable for the average person, it wasn't unusual for couples to simply go their separate ways and later live with common-law spouses instead of officially remarrying.  Probably easier to explain her away as illegitimate than to admit she wasn't married to Frederick. 

Although it's not clear exactly what happened or what age Adelaide was at the time (if the 1891 census is right, she was close to 16 at Adelaide Jr's birth), it does look as if we might have:

May 1880: Thomas Hilleard/Hileard, son of Richard, m. Adelaide Andrews  (a copy of this record should give Adelaide's age, although she may well have lied about it).
April 1881 (census): Thomas Hilleard, pipe maker, son of Richard, in Bermondsey (single)
June 1881: Thomas Hillyard, pipe maker, and wife Adelaide, baptised a daughter, Adelaide Elizabeth (Thomas might not have been involved, of course, Adelaide could have given the details).

Although Adelaide Elizabeth could have born earlier than June -  I cannot see a birth registration for her.

Thomas might be the same pipe maker who later turns up in Bermondsey as living with a Julia with a number of kids - this family also use multiple spellings, Hilleard/Hileard/Hilliard.  Funnily enough, I can't seem to spot a marriage for this pair either.

Cannot find daughter Adelaide in 1901, either.  Can she be spotted on the school records under some variation of Hilleard or Andrews, perhaps?  It would be good to find some confirmation that the child Adelaide Hil*rd is indeed the same as the Adelaide who appears in 1891 with Frederick Liffen's family.  At the moment I'm classing it as "likely hunch". :)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline John_Moore

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Re: Liffen help please
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 01 March 15 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Hello Henry,
Hope you are still subscribed to this message board.
There is a birth registration for an Adeline ANDREWS , Dec Qtr, 1858, Bermondsey. I believe this to be same person as Adelaide ANDREWS who married Thomas HILLEARD, Jun Qtr 1880, St Saviour. Ages given in 1891 census transcription are clearly wrong. Original needs to be checked.
There is a marriage between Frederick LEFFEN and Adeline ANDREWS registered Jun Qtr 1927, Southwark. Could it be that they at last decided to make legal?

Frederick's brother James LEFFEN married Lucy STYLES, (Dec Qtr, 1875, Bermondsey). James and Lucy are my great grandparents.

Regards,
John :)

Offline londonliffen

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Re: Liffen help please
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 01 March 15 20:53 GMT (UK) »
Hello John.
Yes I am still a member on Rootschat. Thank you very much for contacting me. It seems that both our GrandFathers were brothers?
Where do you live John and where were you born?

regards

HL

Offline John_Moore

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Re: Liffen help please
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 01 March 15 23:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi Henry,
I live in Catford, but first 46 years lived in Bermondsey.
Have you made much progress since your last posting.
It was our Great Grandfathers who were brothers, making us third cousins.

Regards,
John


Hello John.
Yes I am still a member on Rootschat. Thank you very much for contacting me. It seems that both our GrandFathers were brothers?
Where do you live John and where were you born?

regards