Liffen help please

[Annette7]

Found them on 1891 Census as Laffan in Bermondsey - ref.RG12 - 380 - 14 - 24.

Don't wish to disrespect your family but Frederick and Adelaide are not too hot on ages from 1891 census onwards.  The one consistent thing is they both give their birthplace as Bermondsey but it varies from 1859 to 1866 so far!! 

As yet not found them before 1891 - can see why you've had problems.

Annette

[lizdb]

OK
So if YOUR one was Frederick born 1894, so of Frederick and Adelaide, then the 1901 census I found in Spurgeon place, son of James and Lucy is NOT the right one. So we can ignore my first few posts.

Starting from scratch with the name Frederick, here is his birth (indexed Leffen)
Oct/Nov/Dec 1894
St Savioirs Southwark
Ref 1d 21

And Annette has found his christening confirming parents as Frederick and Adelaide.

They have been found in 1901, here is the full transcription:
RG 13 388 167 60
7 Edward House, Peter Road, Bermonsey
Frederick 42 Dock labourer
Adelaide 42
Mary 5
Julia 3
Frederick 2    all bn Bermonsey

As Annette said, ages are not that accurate!

Back 10 years to 1891 (again has been found,but here is full transcription):
RG12 380 14 24
21 St Johns Place Bermonsey
Fred 25 gen labourer
Adelaide  25
Adelaide 10
Emily 6
Eliza 5
Mary 7 mths

Again, ages not good compared with 1901!

Then, as everyone else found, the trail goes cold.

I would suggest maybe the next step would be to send for Frederick's birth cert (www.gro.gov.uk) to find a maiden name for Adelaide?

[lizdb]

Christenings of some of the children -

Eliza Frances 31 Oct 1886 Bermonsey St Mary
Elizabeth 23 Sep 1888  Walworth St John
Mary 1 Mar 1891 Bermonsey St Luke
Julia 19Mar 1893 Bermonsey St Mary
Frederick 15 April 1895 Southwark St Saviour

So they moved round the Churches!

[lizdb]

Elizabeth marries Arthur French on 24 Feb 1908, father Frederick Liffen, waterside labourer

Mary marries Sidney Baker on 14 May 1911 (witnesses Emily and WilliamDwyer), father Frederick labourer

Emily marries William Dwyer on 31 May 1904 father Frederick waterside labourer

All of above at Southwark St Mary

Julia marries Charles William Wright on7 April 1912 at Bermonsey St Mary, father Frederick labourer

There seems to be no records anywhere about thge daughter Adelaide - I am wondering if she was never a Liffen, but Adelaides from  a previois marriage/relationship. I cant find a birth or chr for her under Liffen, or a marriage

[lizdb]

A couple of deaths -

Both Bermondsey - so they stayed in that area

March 1938, Bermondsey ref 1d 81
Frederick  Liffen age 77 

June 1951, Bermondsey ref 5c 117
Frederick Liffen age 56

No sign at the mo of what happened to either Adelaide - would be in teresting to see if she was still around and registered Frederick (senior) 's death.

[Annette7]

Frederick senior appears to be the son of a John and Eliza and bc.1860 Bermondsey.

1871 - family transcribed as Leffen - ref. RG10 - 632 - 21 - 39

1861 - family transcribed as Leffin - ref. RG9 - 323 - 80 - 35

John stated to be bc.1821 London
Eliza bc.1827 Ramsgate

Annette

[lizdb]

Thats interesting - so the James I was incorrectly following at the beginning was a brother of Frederick, I did wonder if that might be the case. (James aged 15 and a leather worker on 1871)

Shame Frederick and co are AWOL on 1881.  I am still of the opinion that he probably never married Adelaide. And she is very elusive too!  Hence my thoughts that fred juniors birth cert might help, in that it might produce a maiden name for her.

[Annette7]

1851 Census - transcribed as Leffers - ref. HO107 - 1559 - 316 - 16

Eliza Leffen   25    Mariners wife          b. Ramsgate, Kent
John Leffen   3                                   b. Borough, Surrey
Emily Leffen  1                                   b. St. Johns, Surrey

John Leffen married Eliza Miller in Jun.qtr.1847 Thanet, Kent.

Annette

[Annette7]

Per familysearch John Leffen, son of John, married Eliza Miller, dau. of Richard,  28/6/1847 Ramsgate, Kent.

So John was a mariner - no doubt how he met and married in Ramsgate.

Annette