Catherine Watt

[lynne_uk21]

Hi I wonder if anyone can help me, My great great grandmother Catherine Watt was born 1816 Old Deer to parents John Watt & Jane/jean (Brechin).She died 15th December 1890 at 145 High Street on her death certificate it has under her name single & pauper, my great grand mother Elizabeth (Eliza)Pirie (Catherines daughter) was informant and present.On Elizabeth's birth certificate 20th October 1855 Tyrie she is named as Elizabeth Kelman Watt (Illegitimate) no fathers name is entered but under the mothers name Catherine Watt it is written has her 2nd child 30 years.I have used ScotlandsPeople to look for Catherines other child but I keep hitting a brick wall. I can only find Eliza on Eliza went on to have 3  Illegitimate children William Watt born 18 November 1872 68 Low street, New Pitsligo Catherine was informant then came my grandfather James Ogston Norrie born poors lodgings house N.P his father is down on the birth certificate as William Norrie and her 3rd child is Barbara Jane Duncan Pirrie born 29th October 1886 121 High street, NP .I have run out of idea`s and using Scotlandpeople is drawing blanks trying to find Catherines other child born before Eliza and wondered if someone had any other suggestions I could try I am travelling up to Scotland next week and have no way of finding Catherine or her Mother & Father as I dont think they will have a marked grave dying paupers, any help would be much appreciated Lynne

[GR2]

The Kirk Session minutes which can be consulted on computer in the National Records of Scotland in Edinburgh would probably give details of the father. They would be especially keen to investigate where it was a "relapse" on the woman's part (i.e. a second illegitimate child).

The parochial board records (if they survive) will be in the Aberdeen Archives (their on-line catalogue will tell you what survives for Old Deer).

It is possible that the earlier child died. If it lived, it might have been brought up by its father or his family. If it is not with Catherine in the 1861 census, it could be living with Catherine's parents. Do the censuses you've found give any clues?

[flst]

Am I right in thinking that Catherine died in New Pitsligo & not Old Deer?
"Has her second child 30 years" I cannot work out what this means. This type of comment is not usely seen on certificates.
Normally when someone applied for poor relief the application form would give a lot of information on the person's circumstances.I too have a few illegitimate ancestors from New Pitsligo.(quite a few siblings with different surnames)  Although I couldn't find any poor relief records for them I did find the school admission records useful. They gave the child's exact date of birth. Perhaps you may be lucky enough to get information in them. These records are also held in Old Aberdeen, the same place as the parochial board records mentioned by GR2.
My great great great grandmother was the Matron of the Poor Lodging Houses in New Pitsligo from February 1892 - February 1902. I managed to get a lot of information from the Tyrie Parish Minutes regarding her post & the condition of the building etc. Her duties were "attend, & wash, to infirm residents & those in sickness. Take in fuel & water to any unable to do so. Clean blankets on death occurring & put into store.To take a general interest in the welfare of the inmates."
In return she got 5/- per week wages, free house & fuel. She asked for a pay rise in a letter dated 7th August 1893. In November she got a 2/- increase backdated to August! When her replacement was appointed in 1902 her wages were 1/- less, at 6/- per week.
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[lynne_uk21]

I have searched census records in Scotlands people and also free cen and LDS 1841 she is living with Ewing family as a servant in  Kinnellar -Aberdeenshire 1851 census. 1861 I cant find her on ScotlandsPeople but have located her on the LDS site but unfortunatley I cant see who she is living with she is down living in new pitsligo aged 45 which fits her age being born 1816 old deer 1881 she is living alone. Catherine died 1890  found nothing that mentions a child. I have searched in the name Watt as my great grandmother was named Elizabeth Kelman Watt on her birth certificate but then changes it to Elizabeth or Eliza Pirie so i tried both surnames  for her until i found her. I was even confused when I came across Elizabeths marriage certificate when she married in 1891 It states her fathers name as John Pirie farm servant  my grandfather James ogston Norrie her son was witness he was only 16 at the time . I have been unable to find either of Elizabeths children after her marriage, I only found her eldest when I found him lodging with James in Mrs Mouwat home along with another lodger .I have been unable to find wedding or death records for either of her other children .My grandfather moved to England but came back to Scotland when his mother Eliza died in Aberdeen mental hospital in 1934, her fathers name stated on her death certificate was Alexander Pirie so that confused me even more having 2 different names as her father. Catherines parents have only ever had a grandson living with them this was catherines sisters son William Garland and that was in the 1881 census, other than that it was their own children living with them.I have tried to use Scotlandspeople again tonight but it wont let me on.I will try what you suggested and hope to find something many thanks again lynne

[lynne_uk21]

In reply to your post about Catherine dying in New pitsligo she did infact die in 145 High street. On Elizabeth's birth certificate it reads the following name Elizabeth Kelman Watt ,female, October 20th 1855 , 125 High street New pitsligo Tyrie, under where it states name,rank, profession,or occupation ,age birthplace of father its states Illegitimate nothing is  wrote for where married etc then mothers details name,maiden name,age,birthplace  are Catherine watt, her 2 child ,39 years ,Old Deer(I noticed I wrote 30years last night it was meant as 39)then under Informant it is John Watt grandfather.I have noticed all the others registered on the page  that are married  have when and where married and  how many children they have and also if living or dead.I cant understand how I cant find anything at all for the first child . Another thing that bothers me is my grandfather is the only one of Elizabeth's 3 illegitimate children who has a father named on his birth certificate ,but was born in a poor lodgings house when his fathers family had a farm in New Deer,while the other 2 children with no father were born low street and high street new pitsligo.I was fascinated to read about your ggg grandmother actually working in the poors lodgings house and the amount she was paid for the work she did. I just wish Catherine was as easy to find as my other great great grand parents the Norries ,Slessors & Barclays

[flst]

I said certificates don't normally have those comments in them! You're lucky to have an 1855 one as it contains extra information. However, note the quote below;
"Siblings: parents' other children, living or deceased (numbers and sex only)"    (1855 only).
The other child you've been trying to find may have died prior to Catherine's birth. The 1855 certificates also showed the age of the mother.
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[flst]

Have you considered Catherine may have been called Kate, or Cathy?She may be in the censuses under any name! Illegitimate children were often registered under their mother's surname & then were known by their father's surname or even their stepfather's name. An informant of a death may not have got names correct:)
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[flst]

Are you aware that there is a public tree on Ancestry which details Catherine's siblings, parents & grandparents & even includes a photograph?
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[lynne_uk21]

The photograph on the ancestry site is mine of the Watt taken a fraserburgh I give the information I had to Sue who runs the site she is from Catherines Sister Jane Watt`s Son William Watt Garland the grandson living with his grandparents on the census