Author Topic: Wife's Occupation?  (Read 6454 times)

Offline gene-genie

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 12 August 13 18:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all your suggestions.  'Likeness Taker'  may be an impressionist, but might it also be what we would call today 'a cartoonist'? 
Yes, that must be them in 1871 - a bit of a mystery still exists re Grace's mother, I thought her mother's name was Mary (I wonder if she is Grace b 1871, after all that is what her daughter is named??) and her father James Matthews - Grace was apparently born in Bristol in 1894, which means that Mary must have left the family business (unless James was a showman too).  However as in my post on Middlesex/Travelling People board, Grace Matthews b Bristol 1894 does appear as grand daughter with John and Selina Ridley....
In 1891 the Ridley family are in Fair Ground Red Cross St St Saviour Sothwark  Peice 342 Folio 97 Page 37, where Selina is 'assisting husband' in 1881 she is described as 'traveller, hawker'.
Their children are:
Thomas b 1861 Cavendish Suffolk,  John b 1867 Bethnal Green, William b 1870 Bethnal G, Grace (aka Mary?) b 1871 Bethnal G, Annetta 'Nettie' b 1880 Kingston, Emma Ridley b 1882 Windsor,Berks, Rhoda b 1886 Bethnal Green.
I will follow up on the Ridley Brothers Links....
BRISTOL/GLS/LON:
DENNING -  RIDDLE-DENNING. & Glam TANNER-DENNING, MORGAN, THOMAS, RICE-ADAMS, RITCHINGS, PINGSTONE
DEV:18thC  RICE, Mary, ADAMS, CLARKE,STENTAFORD. MICHLEMORE.
HANTS: RICE-ADAMS, RICE-DEVEREUX-ADAMS (S'hampton), PIPER.  (Hants)
All GLS/Glam/Brks: TOVEY,  WESLEY/WASLEY, GLS/GLAM.  MARSHALL, PEARSON, GREEN, JAYNES  COOMBES, TOMBS.
LANCS: DUNN, Manc. BROWN Dorset
CHS: BROMILEY
SOM:  BALCH.
WLS:  MORRIS, MGY/DEN, WMS, GRIFFITHS,
WTS/Lon: SKUSE
BRKS/Lon: CHURCH. WAKEFIELD

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 12 August 13 22:07 BST (UK) »
I'm thinking more caricaturist than a cartoonist - a quick portrait sketcher. 

Census information can't be relied upon by itself - BMDs have to be cross-referenced.  Parents sometimes forgot their children's birth places and true ages, especially if they travelled a lot, or if they were illiterate, or if they had many children.  First names, middle names and nicknames were often interchanged on the censuses.  Widows might have reverted back to their maiden names, or remarried, etc.  Minefield! 

Two Ridley children christenings seem to conflict with the census data: 

THOMAS RIDLEY, christened 21/9/1862 at Doddington, Cambridgeshire [not Cavendish, Suffolk?]
Son of John Ridley & Selina Ridley
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NTGZ-531

LAURA ELIZABETH RIDLEY, christened 28/1/1869 at Tamworth, Staffordshire. Daughter of John Ridley & Selina Ridley. [This child should be with her parents on the 1871 and 1881 censuses, unless she died in infancy, or could this be "Grace"?]
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NB1T-WH2

I can see 2 possible Grace Matthews on the censuses, 10 years between them:

(1) 1901 Census at London / Middlesex (Wandsworth) - Grace Matthews, aged 7, born in Bristol, grand daughter to the head of house  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X9HT-KL5
[this one sounds like your Grace Matthews, born circa 1894 - so off the 1891 census]

(2) 1911 Census at Bridgwater, Somersetshire - Grace Matthews, aged 7, born in Bridgwater https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7RC-LH8
[this one b. abt. 1904 - prob. not directly related]

On the 1881 Census, I can see a 10-year old Grace Ridley, born Bethnal Green, although I can't find her christening around 1871 (unless she is Laura).  This definitely sounds like your Grace living in a caravan with her family: head, John Ridley (42), wife Se?na Ridley (39), siblings Thomas (19), John (14), William (11), Charlotte (5), and Nettie (1).  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3LR-KTN

Emma and Rhoda were born later, according to the 1891 census.   

Dad not to be confused with the John Ridley married to a Mary, on the 1871 census at Marylebone.  Different children.  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VRJQ-ZF3

Grand daughter Grace Matthews, b. abt. 1894 must be the daughter of one of the older Ridley daughters and a Matthews man.  I think we can rule out Nettie, Emma and Rhoda, who would have been too young to have a baby in 1894, aged 13, 12, and 8, so that leaves Charlotte or Grace ... or the mysterious Laura. 









Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 00:26 BST (UK) »
Hi again Genie, it looks like we can eliminate Laura Elizabeth Ridley, christened 1869, from your branch.  There are 2 John Ridleys married to 2 Selenas around the same time! 

Laura Elizabeth Ridley is the daughter of another John Ridley and Selina Ridley, both born in Warwickshire.  On the 1881 census, 13-year-old Laura is with her parents and older sisters, Minnie and Christiana, in Bedfordshire.  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3N1-Z29

Therefore, can't possibly be the same John & Selina Ridley family in the caravan at Bethnal Green in 1881. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3LR-KTN

This is good.  It leaves Charlotte or Grace. 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe


Offline gene-genie

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 12:32 BST (UK) »
Hi 'Fide'

Yes, I agree, BMD's have to be checked.  I'd come across the Suffolk/Cambridge entries for Thomas Ridley too, I suppose being travelling folk, he may have been born in Suffolk and baptised in Cambridge?

Yes, it seems Grace's mother was either Charlotte or Grace - The grand daughter Grace's middle initial was C  - (probably Charlotte), her parent's wedding certificate should clear that up.  I am confident the Bridgewater born Grace is not my line - the Dennings (Grace's grandmother, Louisa) were in Bristol back several generations, and while her husband James Grant's roots were in Middlesex, his Grant family had been in Cheltenham since the mid 19thC.  Thanks for your efforts.
BRISTOL/GLS/LON:
DENNING -  RIDDLE-DENNING. & Glam TANNER-DENNING, MORGAN, THOMAS, RICE-ADAMS, RITCHINGS, PINGSTONE
DEV:18thC  RICE, Mary, ADAMS, CLARKE,STENTAFORD. MICHLEMORE.
HANTS: RICE-ADAMS, RICE-DEVEREUX-ADAMS (S'hampton), PIPER.  (Hants)
All GLS/Glam/Brks: TOVEY,  WESLEY/WASLEY, GLS/GLAM.  MARSHALL, PEARSON, GREEN, JAYNES  COOMBES, TOMBS.
LANCS: DUNN, Manc. BROWN Dorset
CHS: BROMILEY
SOM:  BALCH.
WLS:  MORRIS, MGY/DEN, WMS, GRIFFITHS,
WTS/Lon: SKUSE
BRKS/Lon: CHURCH. WAKEFIELD

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 13 August 13 15:26 BST (UK) »
Hi Genie

Yes, Thomas Ridley could have been born in Suffolk and baptised later in Cambridgeshire, or maybe the census is just wrong!   :-X

Charlotte Ridley, born in Bethnal Green circa 1876, on the 1891 census, aged 15, with her family at Southwark (Parish of St. Saviour).  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/QM5H-K2M

I can see a possible birth record for her on FreeBMD:  b. June 1876, CHARLOTTE SELINA RIDLEY, at Bethnal Green.  Vol. 1c, page 285. 
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=kjGag5MLS7PAzwzTNj0zDA&scan=1
The original birth register will confirm her parents.

Also on the 1881 census with the same family, aged 5.  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X3LR-KTN
i.e. not Ada Charlotte Ridley, stepdaughter of the Paternoster family in Marylebone, 1881. 

Can't see your Charlotte Ridley on the 1901 census, aged 25, so she must have been married by then.  Marriage of Charlotte, if any, is probably around 1894 or later (aged 18+).  There is a marriage of a Charlotte Ridley in March 1898 at St. Saviour Southwark (same parish as in 1891).  Vol. 1d, page 123.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=GGJnQRnoTaljLMTMBLsKIw&scan=1



Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline gene-genie

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 14 August 13 12:03 BST (UK) »
Thanks again :)!

I believe I have found a marriage:
FREEBMD

Charlotte RIDLEY to James MATTHEWS  March Q  1898 St Saviour Southwark 1D 123
It seems they had three children before they got married.

It seems James may have been a traveller too as in 1911 the family are in  Malt Shovel Meadow Victoria Road Bridgwater ,Somerset.Record states they'd been married for 13 years, so that would make the 1898 Southwark marriage right.

Confusingly, in 1901,  Charlotte Matthews is in a caravan in Taunton with her children Susan (1892) and Thomas (1893) but her husband's name is down as George Matthews not James.  He must have been James George or George James......I knew Grace C Matthews had a brother Thomas b 1 Feb 1893 baptised Sts Philip & Jacob Feb 19 1893 - this must be him.  Therefore, Charlotte Ridley must be Graces' mother. 
BRISTOL/GLS/LON:
DENNING -  RIDDLE-DENNING. & Glam TANNER-DENNING, MORGAN, THOMAS, RICE-ADAMS, RITCHINGS, PINGSTONE
DEV:18thC  RICE, Mary, ADAMS, CLARKE,STENTAFORD. MICHLEMORE.
HANTS: RICE-ADAMS, RICE-DEVEREUX-ADAMS (S'hampton), PIPER.  (Hants)
All GLS/Glam/Brks: TOVEY,  WESLEY/WASLEY, GLS/GLAM.  MARSHALL, PEARSON, GREEN, JAYNES  COOMBES, TOMBS.
LANCS: DUNN, Manc. BROWN Dorset
CHS: BROMILEY
SOM:  BALCH.
WLS:  MORRIS, MGY/DEN, WMS, GRIFFITHS,
WTS/Lon: SKUSE
BRKS/Lon: CHURCH. WAKEFIELD

Offline Fide et Fortitudine

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 14 August 13 17:30 BST (UK) »
Bingo!   ;D

Well done, Genie! 
Fide et Fortitudine - By fidelity and fortitude
"I force nae freen" - I force no friend and fear no foe

Offline gene-genie

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 411
    • View Profile
COMPLETED With Thanks Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 15 August 13 11:20 BST (UK) »
Thanks to all who helped with this topic
BRISTOL/GLS/LON:
DENNING -  RIDDLE-DENNING. & Glam TANNER-DENNING, MORGAN, THOMAS, RICE-ADAMS, RITCHINGS, PINGSTONE
DEV:18thC  RICE, Mary, ADAMS, CLARKE,STENTAFORD. MICHLEMORE.
HANTS: RICE-ADAMS, RICE-DEVEREUX-ADAMS (S'hampton), PIPER.  (Hants)
All GLS/Glam/Brks: TOVEY,  WESLEY/WASLEY, GLS/GLAM.  MARSHALL, PEARSON, GREEN, JAYNES  COOMBES, TOMBS.
LANCS: DUNN, Manc. BROWN Dorset
CHS: BROMILEY
SOM:  BALCH.
WLS:  MORRIS, MGY/DEN, WMS, GRIFFITHS,
WTS/Lon: SKUSE
BRKS/Lon: CHURCH. WAKEFIELD

Offline Grace Matthews

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Wife's Occupation?
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 20 April 14 23:21 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am new to this forum and have read with interest the thread for John and Selina Ridley.  They were my paternal great grandparents.  My grandfather, James Matthews married Mary Ridley.  They had 3 children - Susan, Thomas and Grace. Thomas was killed in France in Feb 1917.  Grace died of a heart condition when she was 9 years old.  John, Selina and Grace are all buried in Manor Park cemetery in London ( I have visited their graves).  Susan married Linwood Hill (showman).
Mary died when the children were young.  James then married Mary's sister, Charlotte Ridley who was my grandmother. I have copies of both wedding certificates.  James and Charlotte's children were: Mary Ann, Annette, Rhoda and my father James. Two sons, John and William died in infancy. James died in Dec 1916 when my father was 8 months old. My brother is also named James and I was named after my aunt Grace. My grandfather, James Matthews was a travelling photographer and I have a picture of his "booth".
If anyone has any more information on this family, I would be very pleased to hear from them.