Scottish OPRs-Sponsors

[Boab3]

My apologies if this has already been discussed at any time. What is the rule of thumb about a sponsor on an old Scottish Birth OPR. I notice it always seems to be two men usually from both sides of the family. How are they chosen? Who is given precedence? Is it the grandfather or uncle or brother of the parents? Is there a tradition  - like the Scottish naming tradition?

Boab3     

[Forfarian]

I'll put my head above the parapet and say that I have not found anything to suggest that there is any hard and fast rule or strong tradition. I have found lots of baptisms where there were both male and female witnesses, and often the witnesses were obviously relatives, but not always. In some parishes the witnesses generally had the same given name as the baby, but again this isn't universal.

The term 'sponsor' is fairly unusual in the Church of Scotland OPRs in my experience. Where it is used, it tends to indicate some sort of irregularity, for example I've seen a grandmother sponsor the baptism of an illegitimate child: Keith, 11 Decr 1814: The Moderator reported that Margaret Norie and William Young in Cottertown of Achanacy having compeared before the Presbytery of Strathbogie on Wednesday last adhered to their former declarations emitted before this Session. The Moderator further observed that he was instructed by the Presbytery to baptise the child of Margaret Norie on her finding a sufficient sponsor. Compeared the said Margaret Norie at whose request  the child was this day baptised she having produced her mother Jean Cruickshank as sponsor, who engaged and promised that the child shall not become a burden on the parish funds of Keith. [Keith Kirk Session minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/570/6/117]

The term 'sponsor' is regularly used in the Roman Catholic registers, however.

[Boab3]

Thankyou for your prompt response Forfarian.

Boab3

[JMStrachan]

Agree with Forfarian. Few baptism entries in the OPR list sponsors. I have a few that list witnesses, though. The witnesses for my lot (Aberdeenshire) tend to be male and neighbours, but there are exceptions: two baptisms of illegitimate children have 1) the child's maternal grandfather "presenting (the baby) for baptism before the congregation" and 2) the child's paternal grandparents as witnesses and with whom the child is with in the ensuing census so they seem to have brought her up.

The vast majority of OPR baptisms I've looked up, though, do not name any witnesses, just the childs' and parents' names.

[GR2]

I have just consulted an early 18th century book of discipline published by the Church of Scotland which I have here. A witness is just a witness and can be anyone competent. A sponsor is the person who actually presents the child for baptism. Normally it is the father, but if he is absent, under church censure etc., some other "suitable person", if possible a grandfather or other close relative, should act as sponsor.

[Forfarian]

Interesting, GR2.

I have a couple of baptisms where the child was 'presented by the mother, the father being under scandal', and 'the father not being in communion with the Church'.

The relevant Kirk Session minutes gave me quite a laugh.

2nd March 1802: Compeared John Wilkie from Airdrie requesting the privilege of baptism for his daughter, and it having been reported to the Session by the Elders of Airdrie that John Wilkie seldom or ever attended any place of public worship and that he had continued for several years past habitually in the neglect of this duty, the Session therefore were of opinion that he had no right to the sealing ordinances of the Gospel whilst he continued in this criminal neglect of attending the public worship of God in the Church upon the Lord's Day - they therefore did and hereby do suspend him from all sealing ordinances of the Gospell untill he give evidence of his repentance and reformation. [East Monkland Kirk Session minutes, National Archives of Scotland CH2/685/4/57]

It struck me that banning him from the kirk was hardly the most effective way of punishing him for not attending the kirk!

[GR2]

Baptism and communion were referred to as the "sealing ordinances", so he is not banned from the services, just communion and having his children baptised.

[Forfarian]

Baptism and communion were referred to as the "sealing ordinances", so he is not banned from the services, just communion and having his children baptised.

Fairy nuff, but it's still a rather perverse way to deal with him. Why take it out on his innocent infants? And as you can see he had no trouble circumventing that, because his wife got them baptised anyway.

[RobinRedBreast]

Hello there,

My 5x great grandad, John Lamond was baptised at Ballater on the 10th of Nov 1807.
Now family search in the transcription has the church as being RC Braemar.
But "Scotlands People" have the church as being St Nathalan, Ballater.
I came across this post, because on each of John's baptism register of siblings they all had 2 sponsors named.

What I am wandering please from a side note of that is this:
If a child was born outside of marriage would that child in the catholic register specifically be put down as being illegitimate?

I will explain more:

My John Lamond was born 10th of November 1807. His father's name was Alexander. Alexander was of Dunaan/Dunandow(?), Corgarff in Strathdon.
These were his siblings, baptized at the same church. All of them had the same father's name, and residence as for John's baptism above:

Donald - 6th of March 1805.
Mary - 7th of April 1806.
James - 8th of January 1810.
Alexander - 12 Mar 1812.
Margaret - 20 Feb 1814.

All of the above had Alexander Lamond as the father, and MARGARET Farquharson as the mother.
However, John Lamond's mother was put on the register as JANNET Farquharson. But John was not put down on the register as being "illegitimate."
John's "sponsors" on the baptism register were John Farquharson of "Dunondow(?)" and Jane McDonald of "Dunoon(?)"
Also on the death certificate of John Lamond from "Scotland's People", April the 9th 1891, in Fiddleston, Porthleven, Kincardineshire it states that his Mother WAS Margaret Farquharson.

I wander if anyone has any information about this please?

Thank you very much.