Author Topic: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors  (Read 6786 times)

Offline GR2

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #18 on: Friday 11 October 19 22:42 BST (UK) »
A book I have here on Aberdeenshire architecture says of the 1905 church that it is "a successor to several ruined sites up the glen".

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #19 on: Friday 11 October 19 23:22 BST (UK) »
A book I have here on Aberdeenshire architecture says of the 1905 church that it is "a successor to several ruined sites up the glen".
Thank you. :)

Offline GR2

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #20 on: Friday 11 October 19 23:27 BST (UK) »
The Old Statistical Account (1791) says of Glengairn "A Popish Priest resides in this parish, and performs divine service every 2d Sunday, in a chapel built for the purpose".

At that time there were 1763 Protestants and 354 Catholics.

The New Statistical Account (1845) says "There is one Catholic chapel on Gairnside, about five miles north-west from the parish church, and about two miles east from the missionary chapel* at Rinloan; and its bishop resides at Pres-home in Banffshire".

* a protestant one

The parishes of Glenmuick, Tullich and Glengairn were united, with the Church of Scotland parish church at Ballater.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #21 on: Friday 11 October 19 23:48 BST (UK) »
Regarding Ballater Church, St Nathalan:

Could somebody please tell me exactly where this was in Ballater?

My 3x great grandad George Sector was baptised there (according to "Scotlands People" website) on the 26th of June 1832. It was apparently a Roman Catholic Church.

But the problem is on google, the only reference I can find to a St Nathalan Church which was in Ballater, was one which was not built until 1905.

Scotlands people definitely gives it as "Ballater, St Nathalan." But confusingly family search give his baptism place as:  "Braemar and Glengairn, Aberdeenshire, Scotland."

Braemar and Glencairn is the name of a Catholic parish. I assume that Ballater is included in the parish. I'm unfamiliar with Aberdeenshire geography or parish structure.
GENUKI for Aberdeenshire https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/parishes
According to GENUKI church database, foundation date of St. Nicholas, Ballater is unknown.

Catholic congregations in Britain existed post-Reformation until 18th or 19th centuries, without having church buildings, or at least without traditional church buildings. The countries of Britain were mission countries. There were no Catholic dioceses or parishes then.  The Catholic congregation in the town where I live (Scotland) used to have services in an upper room in a pub until a church was built in 3rd decade of 19thC. Some priests travelled around to visit their widespread flock.

Braemar and Glengairn R.C. parish records, previously held at Blair's College, Aberdeenshire, are now in Special Collections of Aberdeen University Library. Records date from early 18thC.

If a local laird in Ballater was Catholic he may have had a chapel in his house. Failing that, any Catholic who had a house with a room big enough to fit his/her Catholic neighbours in or an empty building.
One lot of my English R.C. ancestors attended Mass at the Hall during 18thC. Lord of the manor changed to C. of E. in 1800 and gave the congregation (400 of them) use of a barn on the edge of his park which they fitted up as a chapel.  Another ancestor attended Mass in a room above the Catholic school in 19thC England - this was also common practice. In the latter case, a mission had been operating for Catholics in several small towns in the area since mid 19thC, served by priests from a larger town; a school was eventually opened but a church wasn't built for another 20 years.
 
Your ancestor may have been baptised at home if the baptism happened soon after birth. It was the custom for a message to be sent to a priest when a baby was born. The priest would visit the home to baptise the baby as soon as convenient, perhaps the same day if there was a local priest and he received the message early enough.
Cowban


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #22 on: Friday 11 October 19 23:59 BST (UK) »

The New Statistical Account (1845) says "There is one Catholic chapel on Gairnside, about five miles north-west from the parish church, and about two miles east from the missionary chapel* at Rinloan; and its bishop resides at Pres-home in Banffshire".

* a protestant one

Samuel Lewis' "Topographical History" (1851) "There is a Catholic chapel on Gairnside  … and another, smaller, some distance away"
Text accessed via GENUKI Aberdeenshire https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/parishes
Cowban

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 12 October 19 10:07 BST (UK) »
Regarding Ballater Church, St Nathalan:

Could somebody please tell me exactly where this was in Ballater?

My 3x great grandad George Sector was baptised there (according to "Scotlands People" website) on the 26th of June 1832. It was apparently a Roman Catholic Church.

But the problem is on google, the only reference I can find to a St Nathalan Church which was in Ballater, was one which was not built until 1905.

Scotlands people definitely gives it as "Ballater, St Nathalan." But confusingly family search give his baptism place as:  "Braemar and Glengairn, Aberdeenshire, Scotland."

Braemar and Glencairn is the name of a Catholic parish. I assume that Ballater is included in the parish. I'm unfamiliar with Aberdeenshire geography or parish structure.
GENUKI for Aberdeenshire https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/parishes
According to GENUKI church database, foundation date of St. Nicholas, Ballater is unknown.

Catholic congregations in Britain existed post-Reformation until 18th or 19th centuries, without having church buildings, or at least without traditional church buildings. The countries of Britain were mission countries. There were no Catholic dioceses or parishes then.  The Catholic congregation in the town where I live (Scotland) used to have services in an upper room in a pub until a church was built in 3rd decade of 19thC. Some priests travelled around to visit their widespread flock.

Braemar and Glengairn R.C. parish records, previously held at Blair's College, Aberdeenshire, are now in Special Collections of Aberdeen University Library. Records date from early 18thC.

If a local laird in Ballater was Catholic he may have had a chapel in his house. Failing that, any Catholic who had a house with a room big enough to fit his/her Catholic neighbours in or an empty building.
One lot of my English R.C. ancestors attended Mass at the Hall during 18thC. Lord of the manor changed to C. of E. in 1800 and gave the congregation (400 of them) use of a barn on the edge of his park which they fitted up as a chapel.  Another ancestor attended Mass in a room above the Catholic school in 19thC England - this was also common practice. In the latter case, a mission had been operating for Catholics in several small towns in the area since mid 19thC, served by priests from a larger town; a school was eventually opened but a church wasn't built for another 20 years.
 
Your ancestor may have been baptised at home if the baptism happened soon after birth. It was the custom for a message to be sent to a priest when a baby was born. The priest would visit the home to baptise the baby as soon as convenient, perhaps the same day if there was a local priest and he received the message early enough.

Thank you very much.  :)

Offline RobinRedBreast

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 12 October 19 10:10 BST (UK) »

The New Statistical Account (1845) says "There is one Catholic chapel on Gairnside, about five miles north-west from the parish church, and about two miles east from the missionary chapel* at Rinloan; and its bishop resides at Pres-home in Banffshire".

* a protestant one

Samuel Lewis' "Topographical History" (1851) "There is a Catholic chapel on Gairnside  … and another, smaller, some distance away"
Text accessed via GENUKI Aberdeenshire https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/parishes

Much obliged.  :)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 12 October 19 11:00 BST (UK) »
What a beautiful setting;
https://www.stmarysstonehaven.org/the-chapel-of-st-mary-and-st-nathalan.html
It is indeed. But it isn't near Ballater! It's in the parish of Fetteresso, on the coast just north-east of Stonehaven. See https://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=102883342 for more images of this chapel.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Scottish OPRs-Sponsors
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 12 October 19 13:48 BST (UK) »
Link to page about Glenmuick, Tullich and Glencairn in "Topographical History" by Samuel Lewis. Information about churches is in 2nd part of last paragraph. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ABD/Glenmuick/Lewis1851

The present St. Nathalan Church is at National Grid Reference NO 36680 95620
The church website has a "History" tab but the history page is empty!
Registers of St. Nathalan in Scottish Catholic Archives start 1769.

A family history blog investigating ancestors baptised at St. Nathalan
"Lamont genealogy and the lost hamlets of Glengairn, Aberdeenshire"
https://www.ilamont.com/2015/06/lamont-genealogy-and-lost-hamlets-of.html
Cowban