Author Topic: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser  (Read 24310 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday 05 October 22 10:14 BST (UK) »
In the 1851 census the address for James Cowie and family is "Backhill Of Overhill", New Deer.
So it is. In which case it's not the Backhill in the parish of New Pitsligo that I found earlier.

In 1851 it's in Enumeration District no 2 of New Deer, along with Affath, Nether Affath, Weetingshill, Backhill (of) Weetingshill, Auchouch, Meikle Auchouch, Sandbridge, Wellhowe, Doghillock, Brownhill, Henscroft on Brownhill, Skelliebogs, Overhill, Backhill of Overhill, and Whitehill.

In 1861 it's in Enumeration District No 7 of New Pitsligo, along with Broomhill, Cranhill, Ironside, Upper Ironside, Overhill, Smithy, Dog Hillock and Back Hill, all of which are in the ecclesiastical parish of New Deer, and Craigculter, Red House, Achnary, Lambhill and Whitehill, all of which are in the ecclesiastical parish of Strichen.

The really striking thing about these lists is how few of the names are the same in both censuses, apart from Doghillock. Look at this map https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.0&lat=57.56539&lon=-2.18845&layers=5&b=1&marker=57.57130,-2.26079 which shows Doghillock over to the right. Above and to the left is Broomhill, and left again is Overhill, printed vertically up what is the edge of a map sheet. Left again is Brownhill. Down from Brownhill is Ironside, including Backhill of Ironside. So is Back Hill the same as Backhill of Overhill in 1851 and Backhill of Ironside in 1861?

This is it on a modern map https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ8751 - click on the map and move it about to see Doghillock, Overhill etc.

Quote
Some information from the Ordance Survey
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/aberdeenshire-os-name-books-1865-1871/aberdeenshire-volume-08/49
Unfortunately that is the wrong Backhill - it's in the parish of Belhelvie, which is on the coast well south of the area we're looking at. Here it is on a modern map https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ9318.

There are places called Backhill in 33 different parishes in Aberdeenshire alone, and in at least one parish in ten other counties. And that doesn't include the ones where the name is split to make it Back Hill - there are only 19 parishes with one of those in the whole of Scotland.

Quote
This is Little Mill in Ellon where Thurlow Fraser was working at time of 1861 census.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/aberdeenshire-os-name-books-1865-1871/aberdeenshire-volume-29/148

See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758930.0 for a bit of background.
Did you notice that there's yet another Backhill, Backhill of Ardlethen, just up and left from Littlemill of Esslemont?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Garthkh

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #64 on: Sunday 16 October 22 02:43 BST (UK) »
Neale1961. How can we see that Thurlow worked at the Little Mill, Ellon?  I can't see his name on the record in your link.  I'm a bit confused with these records.
Have we also got any census records for Thurlow before he marries Jane Cowie. Who are his parents?  I presume Thurlow was in the house and we can see who the head of house is.  Jane's census records are clear as to who is all in the house.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #65 on: Sunday 16 October 22 04:34 BST (UK) »
Are you looking at the correct census record?

https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/59026919e9379091b1d3d90b/thurlaw-fraser-1861-aberdeenshire-ellon-1827-?locale=en

He is recorded as a servant and Miller journeyman. (Scroll down the page)
Address is Little Mill, Ellon.
I think this is probably the same place as "Littlemill of Esslemont", which was his address when he married.

I'm happy to help if you explain what you are confused about. ??
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #66 on: Sunday 16 October 22 04:39 BST (UK) »
Re-posting…

Thurlow Fraser died 23 Oct 1889 New Pitsligo. Parents are named on his death certificate and agree with those named on his marriage.

Thurlows parents ….
Alexander Fraser and Christian Burnett were married 19 Jan 1806 Fraserburgh.

This would seem to be Thurlow Fraser in 1841. (1841 is the earliest census.)
https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a14280cf4040b9d6e12ef4e/thirlow-fraser-1841-banffshire-gamrie-1826-?locale=en
It seems likely that Thurlow’s parents were deceased before 1841.
The head of house is probably a brother to Thurlow (George born 1814 Fraserburgh),
and the Mary Burnett could be a relation on his mother’s side.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)


Offline Neale1961

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #67 on: Sunday 16 October 22 07:14 BST (UK) »
These records are obtainable through Scotlands People

1860 Marriage Certificate - Statutory Marriages 227/B12
Sept. 22, 1860 - New Pitsligo, Aberdeen, Scotland
Thurlow Fraser 36, Residence:  Littlemill of Esslemont, Aberdeenshire - he was a meal miller - father:  Alexander Fraser, square wright, master (deceased) - Mother:  Christina Fraser Burnett (Deceased)
Jane Cowie 22, residence:  Blackhill, New Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire - father:  James Cowie, farmer - Mother Agnes Clyne.
Witnesses: Jas Thomson, Wm Brown

1889 Death Certificate – Statutory Deaths 227/B33
Thurlow Fraser – Meal miller Journeyman – Married to Jane Cowie
23 Oct 1889 – 1h,15m AM – 61 Low Street, New Pitsligo (Tyrie)
Male – 63 years
Father – Alexander Fraser, game keeper deceased; Mother - Christina Fraser MS Burnett
Ulcers of Stomach – 1 month – As certified by Geo Rae MD
Maggie Fraser – daughter present
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Garthkh

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #68 on: Sunday 23 October 22 07:33 BST (UK) »
Neale1961
Thank you for these.  We have a cousin returning to the UK this week.  She has a credits with Scotlands People and can search and download these certificates.

Offline GR2

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #69 on: Sunday 23 October 22 12:07 BST (UK) »
Re Alexander Fraser and Christina Burnett's daughter, Margaret Dunbar Fraser.

When she married James Imlah, her address was 9 St Nicholas Street, Aberdeen. This was the St Nicholas Hotel, and it is likely that she was working there. The hotel was run by John Bonner, and this seems to be the origin of the name given to Joan 'Bonna'. 'Bonna' will have been a mishearing by the registrar.

James Imlah was a farm servant, who became a railway guard between 1861 and 1863. He was killed in an accident at Carron Station, Knockando, in 1881.

Of their children,

Joan (Johanna) Bonner married Neil Weir in 1893. He was overseer of the Ormidale estate at Kilmodan, Argyll. Joan died there in 1925.

Margaret Thomson Smith Fraser did not marry. However, she had five children: James Alexander Imlah, b. 1892; John Reilly Imlah, b. 1894; Andrew George Hume Imlah, b. 1902; Henry Hume Imlah, b. 1904; Melvin Duguid Innes Imlah, b. 1906. Margaret died in 1940

Jane (Jeannie) did not marry. However, she had a son, Donald Cameron Grant, b. 1903. She died in 1943.

James worked on the railways. He married Margaret Junor in 1906. She died in 1939. James died in 1961.

William Forsyth worked on the railways, then was clerk and later manager at a distillery. He married Isabella Geddes in 1896. She died in 1950. William died in 1954.

I am related to Margaret Fraser's husband, James Imlah.

Offline Garthkh

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #70 on: Monday 24 October 22 10:20 BST (UK) »
We have downloaded Thurlow Fraser's death notice and we've also got a copy of the 1871 Census. Can anyone tell us why Thurlow's name would be give as Sherton on the census? See attached.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: The name "Thirlow" or Thurlow Fraser
« Reply #71 on: Monday 24 October 22 10:43 BST (UK) »
Can anyone tell us why Thurlow's name would be give as Sherton on the census? See attached.
Because what you have got is from Ancestry.

That is not the census. It's transcription of the census, and a typical example of the poor transcriptions for which Ancestry is notorious. You need to view the original, available only at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (for a small fee).

Though it's actually not surprising they got it wrong as it's very hard to read the original.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.