Author Topic: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878  (Read 8981 times)

Online heywood

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #18 on: Monday 26 August 13 19:44 BST (UK) »
BR,
it is very difficult isn't it.
Is this a summary - can you get any more information re the dates, perhaps?
Ellen dies - 1918.
William leaves army 1919.

William Charles goes to live with grandparents until adulthood.
Does William stay in the South of England all the time?
At what point does he go to live in Liverpool - he has no ties there other than his son, so was it after Kate died?
The death certificate would not be very helpful but it would be worth getting it to see if there is an error - not Walter but William.
Maybe he would be on electoral rolls in Mitcham but that wouldn't help much.
It is frustrating!!!
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Offline BR

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #19 on: Friday 30 August 13 22:06 BST (UK) »
I know Ellen died 15 March 1918 in London St Pancras Hospital. I couldn't find any entry in William's army records granting him leave from Dewsbury however he was the informant on the death certificate which means he must have been there.

From there the details get very sketchy. I am going off a document which was put together by the family but I can't find any hard evidence supporting these facts.

Charlie (William Charles, his son) moved in with his granny and granddad at Brasenose Road, Bootle; a three-bedroomed Victorian terrace with small gardens at the front and back. When Charlie was about 8 or 9 (so 1926-1927) he went back down south to stay with his dad, he'd travel on the train where his dad worked in the buffet car. He stayed in Mitcham, Surrey.

It then jumps to 1931 and says Charlie was back in Liverpool at this time.

The next record I can find William Ryan Snr is 1951 which is when he moved up to Liverpool to live with the family. He died in 1963.

And that's all the information I have. I know he is buried in Anfield Cemetery but can't find any more records surrounding that fact.

Offline BR

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #20 on: Friday 25 October 13 20:02 BST (UK) »
It's been a while since I posted originally and wanted to give an update as to where I've got to since everyone's help.
I ordered the wedding certificate between a William Ryan and Catherine Maria Shrubb and it turns out it was him! Thanks so much ChrissieL! The signatures match from his army records and first marriage.
So that was a bit of a discovery. But the mystery deepens because he listed his father occupation still as a seaman but the name was Thomas Ryan instead of John Ryan as in his first marriage.
I was able to trace him with his new wife who normally went by the name of Kate to Paddington where they lived before WW2 and found they owned a cafe in Kensington on Powis Terrace via electoral rolls.
I'm still trying to find a trace of him before 1911. I found a William Ryan via electoral rolls living on Clarendon St in the late 1900s and on Little Clarendon St in the early 1900s but the first instance of him is in 1896 where he would have been 18 years old. I know the legal voting age was 21 back then so I'm not sure whether this is him or not... Would people lie about their age on electoral rolls?

Offline garstonite

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #21 on: Friday 25 October 13 20:25 BST (UK) »
Unless I have missed something - you don`t say - 1st wife Ellen , what was her maiden name - where and what year did they marry ?
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford


Online heywood

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #22 on: Friday 25 October 13 20:25 BST (UK) »
Hi,
He's not the one in Little Clarendon Street. In 1901, that one is older and a Coal Porter.

Heywood
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Offline MargP

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #23 on: Friday 25 October 13 21:27 BST (UK) »
Hi

London School Admissions Bell St Ragged School

John Ryan b 30/8/1871 Father John
Henry Ryan b 21/11/1874
WILLIAM RYAN b 11 Oct 1875

Living in Salisbury St

Margp
Family History is a Pandora's box if you don't like what you see find a new hobby,only concentrate on the proven facts and not the facts you think you know.
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Offline BR

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #24 on: Friday 25 October 13 21:55 BST (UK) »
Thanks Heywood!
garstonite, my Great-Grandmother was named Ellen Sankey and she married William Ryan in 1917. Sadly, she died a year later giving birth to my Grandfather. My Grandfather went to live in Liverpool with his Mum's side of the family.
MargP, do you know where that school was? The birth year is slightly off but I'd like to see what occupation the father of Henry and William had.

Offline BR

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #25 on: Friday 25 October 13 22:00 BST (UK) »
And Ellen Sankey and William got married in St Pancras.

Offline garstonite

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Re: Mystery of William Ryan, born 1878
« Reply #26 on: Friday 25 October 13 22:05 BST (UK) »
And Ellen Sankey and William got married in St Pancras.

so was Ellen Sankey / and parents , from Liverpool ?
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford