Author Topic: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder  (Read 24276 times)

Offline Carole Hampton

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #27 on: Friday 08 November 13 20:02 GMT (UK) »
K5  I have been away for a few days and wonder if you have made any progress?  You infered that you may visit Lpool library or the Cemetry. Have you done so if not and you intend to  I would be happy to meet up if you so wish and if we can find a convenient time. Library prefared to the other place.  I do not live amillion miles from Lpool centre so no problem there. Let me know.  Meanwhile  have made no progress on any of the matters discussed.

Offline A brown

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 09 November 13 00:55 GMT (UK) »
Don't know if this rings any bells but my mother remembers her father (john/jack Hamilton brown,son of Robert Hamilton brown) visiting a cousin Alex in liverpool and an aunt Nellie when she was little (1940/50/60s). Still the mystery of what happened to Robert Hamilton brown.

Offline Carole Hampton

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 09 November 13 19:16 GMT (UK) »
At least someone remembers something!  My calculation is that your G/F  John HB was a cousin of my G/M Mary H (nee Wylie).  Agree? What was the position in the previous generation... can't work that out at the moment.   
My mother died in 1950, before that I have clear memories of visiting Sandy and Nellie they had a TV!! and S used to take my Dad who was more or less TT to his local. I think when the TV became too much.  l presume that Sandy was still around after Mum died but not for long. I do recall spending a few days with Nellie during my last summer at home I went to sea at 17 and cannot recall her end I seem to think she was in care near Preston for some time.  I still do not know the Hamilton connection.   

Offline Kipper5

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 10 November 13 15:57 GMT (UK) »
That's great that A. Brown's grandfather, John Hamilton Brown actually referred to the Liverpool Wylies as cousins.
This implies that their mother, Mary Wylie was possibly a sister of the Browns in L'derry. And also then that Amy J Brown, (John Hamilton's half sister) married her cousin (Uncle Sandy) in Liverpool.

The Browns in L'derry as far as I know were:
John (b1847 in Johnstone, Renfrewshire, d1897 Derry)
Alexander (b1849 in Johnstone, d1929 Derry)
James (b1851 in Johnstone, d1933 Derry)
Robert Hamilton (b c1858 in Derry, d?,mysterious disappearance), A Brown's great grandfather
Janette (b1860, d?)
Agnes Stewart (b1862 Derry, d1946 Portstewart)
Margaret (b1867 Derry, d1953 Belfast) my great granny
Jean (b1869 Derry)
I think there was also a son, David Hepburn Brown (Bertie), born I think in Derry, who went to South Africa.

Their father was Alexander Brown, born c1818 in Ayrshire, married in 1845 in Renfrewshire to Agnes Stewart, b 1824 in Renfrewshire.

Alexander Brown was previously married and widowed between 1841 and 1845, possibly in Newton upon Ayr, Ayrshire.
From the first marriage he had atleast one daughter, Eliza, born c 1844 in Newton.
((The 1851 census in Johnstone, Renfewshire gives him and his second wife Agnes with Eliza aged 7, and then John aged 3 and Alexr aged 1. James must have been born shortly afterwards and then the family , for some reason, went to Derry.))

What I don't know is how the sister Mary Brown/Wylie, (Alex Hampton's great grandmother) fitted into this. From the Liverpool census' it can be seen that she was born in c1843 in Ayrshire, so either she is "Eliza", or she is another sister just not in the Scottish 1851 census.

Alex, I went to the Central Library in Liverpool and was able to find that the Wylies are buried in Kirkdale Cemetery in Section 7, Grave 1668. Well, I found Amy Johnstone Brown/Wylie, who died in 1912 aged 22, and John Wylie, your great-grandfather, who died in June 1917, aged 79. I really want to know who else is in the grave. Particularly to find when Mary Wylie died, and then if there is any more info on her. This will show if indeed she is a daughter of Alexander Brown. And then who her mother is.
((To get this info, I have to contact the Liverpool cemetries' office to obtain the Order Numbers of each burial for the grave, and then return to the library to look up each Order Number.))

Sorry for the huge response!


Offline Carole Hampton

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 10 November 13 19:06 GMT (UK) »
What a marathon It will take me a while to digest that  have had to copy out by hand as my printer u/s.    Amazing the way the key player is a series of ????.  I will now go back to the info I already had to see if it sheads any light but I have my doubts.  Keep in touch

Offline A brown

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 10 November 13 23:31 GMT (UK) »
what a lot of information to digest! I expect you have already looked at the PRONI wills, there is a copy of john Brown's will (who died 29.1.1897) as there he lists his brothers as James, Robert, David and Alexander jar and his 3 sisters as Agnes, Margaret Oliver (nee Brown) and Jeannie. So Kipper 5, it appears we are related as our great grandparents were siblings!

Offline Kipper5

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #33 on: Monday 11 November 13 08:41 GMT (UK) »
Wow, no I didn't. That's great!
The relationship to the Liverpool cousins remains a mystery.
They were related in that Amy J Brown, Robert H Brown's daughter had married Alexander Brown Wylie (your "Uncle Sandy", who later married "Aunt Nelly") in 1921. But I think they were related in another way.
Alexander B Wylie seems to have been named for possibly his grandfather, the Scottish Alexander Brown, who lived in Derry.
I would like to find out more about the child/ren from the first marriage in Scotland, to see if Mary Wylie snr, Alex Hampton's gt granny was indeed a sister.

Thanks again.

Offline Kipper5

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #34 on: Monday 18 November 13 12:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello, (Alex Hampton)

I have found out who is in the Wylie Grave at Kirkdale cemetery (Non Conformist section 7, plot 1668):

Amy Johnson Wylie buried 21 Nov 1912, age 22
John Wylie, buried 8 June 1917, aged 79 of 39 Almond Green, W Derby
Mary Wylie, buried 19 April 1933, aged 91 of 10 Walton Village, Walton
Kate Wylie, buried 6 Dec 1937, aged 65 of 9 Egerton Pk, Rock Ferry. Spinster, owner John Wylie.

These are your great-grandparents, Mary+John. This basic grave info doesn't give Mary's maiden name, or details of her parents, which is what I would like to know, to see how she is related to the Browns in Derry.
I just know from the 1911 census that she and her husband were born in Ayrshire and married 48 years at that time, so about 1863.

{Kate is sister of your grandmother, Mary Wylie-Hampton, and your gt uncles John/Jack and Sandy.}

Regards.

Offline Carole Hampton

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Re: Alexander Brown, Ironmoulder
« Reply #35 on: Monday 18 November 13 21:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi K  You are better at all this than me. Thyank you.   Good going on the older Wylies I appreciate the problem re Brown connection.  No bright ideas on this I am afraid.
10 Walton Village was my grandparents address in 1933 I think that they moved to Waterloo soon after that. My Dad Geo and sister Kate both married 1933 other brother at sea.  I had never heard that Mary senior had lived with them perhaps only as she became older?
I had discovered Kate Wylie in the early censuses in 1891 given as age 19 and dressmaker the big point is that my Dad who gave me much of the family history never mentioned her!  I had wondered if she had died quite young.  A