helen irvine

[tom-dick]

looking for any information on helen irvine.she was born in dublin,probably drumcondra.approx 1890-1920.her mothers name was mclean,that is all the information i have so far on her,tom

[aghadowey]

What do you mean by 'any information'? have you found a birth registeration of census records already or do you need help finding these? do you have parents' names or any other details already?

[dathai]

having done a search for Helen Irvine's birth on family search in both Dublin North and South between the years 1880 to 1940 there are no results there is however a marriage in 1908 in Dublin for a Nellie Irvine.

[aghadowey]

There are more details in at least one previous post of yours- (I've added the spaces around puctuation to make it easier to read but using capital letters for proper nouns would also help)-

looking for any information on elizabeth mclean born in dublin, ireland. we believe she married an irvine, in hartepool? they had a daughter helen. she married alfred chivers in early 1895. they had a daughter dora, alfred chivers was born in 1870. elizabeth was born in dublin, i would like to find out if she was married to an irvine, any help with these people greatly appreciated,tom

It seems as though Elizabeth married Chivers as McLean NOT Irvine. (reply #1). If Helen Irvine was from a previous relationship then she should have been born BEFORE 1895 (not the 1890-1920 range you've posted here). Perhaps best to wait until you get the marriage certificate to see if Elizabeth was married previously.

It does look as though Helen Irvine's relationship to the family is NOT clear-

i have a death cert for elizabeths brother,the witness was his niece,helen irvine,in ireland.maybe helen was married but we are not sure,tom

[myluck!]

tom-dick

In the excitement of finding information we can sometimes start to sound confusing!
aghadowey's advice is on the mark
if we write down what we've got and try to break it into smaller pieces, we can achieve an amount

If I am correct the following is proven

Elizabeth Jane Mclean m. Alfred Chivers in 1895 in Hartlepool
They are listed on the 1901 census as 31 and 29 respectively; with one child Dora
They are listed on the 1911 census as 41 and 39 respectively; with one child Dora
Elizabeth is shown as born in Dublin and had two children of which only one was alive

Elizabeth Jane Mclean's birth is implied as 1872
There are records which may tie in on familysearch.org LINK

Your search is for a Helen Irvine who is shown as a witness on Elizabeth's brother's death cert

If this is correct you are looking for one of the following:
Another child to Elizabeth named Helen Irvine (either by birth or marriage)
A child of Elizabeth's sibling named Helen Irvine (either by birth or marriage)
This leaves quite a number of combinations to work through

When did this man die? and where?
Can you locate him on census returns to see who lived with him?
Can you locate Helen Irvine in the same area?

Logically if Helen was Elizabeth's child, she was born in Ireland before her mother went to the UK;
either to another marriage as suggested, but if true, the name would be noted at her marriage to Alfred
or unmarried, which at that time would probably have meant the child being given away from the family

I would suggest, like aghadowey, that you review what you have
then attempt to locate Elizabeth's birth for her parents and siblings
and follow this line of searching

Best of luck

[tom-dick]

thank you both for your help,i have taken on board your suggestions.i have reviewed the death cert.William a.mcLean lived at 34 st Lawrences rd since 1904,he died in1958 aged 84.the witness was Helen Irvine,niece,residence:34 st Lawrences rd.William was a widower so Helen probably was living there and looking after him.any more information i get i will post it.thank you for your help,tom

[myluck!]

tom-dick
after searching a little this evening when the census records came back on line
I had a sense of de javu when I came across the name Arnott;
I have previously helped you with this family link to old topic
and there are at least two other similar topics Link 1 and Link 2 dating back over two years

It is best practise to continue a thread so people can utilise the original findings rather than search unnecessarily a second time
or to put a link to the old topic in the new one
Click on the address in the address bar, select the full address and
easiest way is to right click and choose from the drop down box

Here however is what I uncovered :

This looks like Elizabeth Jane’s birth in 1872 with a spelling MACLAINE
Sister Susanna se copy & paste to topic
Jane in 1870
Possible Brother Patrick in 1871
Mother shown as O’Grady but as the record is not visible this may be a typo and I would consider it until you rule it out
Brother William in 1873

Parents Marriage in 1869; William MCLEAN to Dora LEECH

Family on 1901 census

This means that the McLean family included at least:
Susanna Jane b1870
Elizabeth Jane b1872
William Alexander b1873
Sarah Jane bc1876 - married to Henry Arnott and didn't remarry so can be ruled out
Alexander bc1878 shown on your original topic
Rhoda Jane bc1891
George Alexander bc1894
(and possibly Patrick in 1871); which give several possibilities for a niece named Helen Irvine!

George is in Wicklow in 1911 with his Leech relatives

To locate Helen you need to establish
A marriage of one of Elizabeth’s sisters to a man named Irvine
that produced a child named Helen Irvine
OR
A marriage of one of Elizabeth’s brothers or sisters that produced a child named Helen
who went on to marry a man named Irvine

[tom-dick]

thank you myluck,it was the birth of henry arnott,son of sarah and henry that led me to elizabeth jane,she was in charge of the child.i am also doing as you say and trying to find a marriage to an irvine.i am also checking the patrick mclean,once again thanks,tom

[myluck!]

Best of luck