Author Topic: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry  (Read 17325 times)

Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 17 October 13 14:48 BST (UK) »
Hi all again,

It appears that William did not appear at the hearing, but in his absence was ordered to pay a fee of £6 10 shillings a year for twelve and a half years. But still no further forward with his identity, so although the result of the case is known, the original papers are not available, so I am hoping somone in the Alloa area can help me.

Tom

Offline Isabel H

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 26 October 13 09:06 BST (UK) »
Children - Christian Sharp 1869 Dollat, William 1871 (entry does say Downside ??),

Can't be absolutely sure without seeing it,  but "Downside" may actually be Devonside.
GRAY - Inveresk; Lanarkshire
LINDSAY - Lanarkshire
PURDIE - Lanarkshire; W. Lothian
POZZI - Elgin; Lancashire
MACKENZIE, MORISON - Isle of Lewis
ARCHIBALD, HAY, HUNTER, SNADDON - Clackmannanshire
COXON, HALL, JACKSON, SHOTTON - Northumberland

Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 26 October 13 09:38 BST (UK) »
Isabel

Yes I agree, there is a Devonside even now isn't there? I have through the Clackmannanshire Archives  established that neither the Tillicoultry News or the Alloa newspapers reported the hearing when William Sharp of Sandhole, Tillicoultry failed to turn up at the hearing and was awarded a fee of £6 10 shillings a year child maintenance. By the way the birth place of Christina was Dollar, not Dollat, just a transcription error. I am now trying Kinross & Perthshire Archives for a newspaper in Maggie McGregor's home town.

Tom

Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #12 on: Friday 01 November 13 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi all again

There is nothing in the Kinross newspapers either about the hearing, maybe it was such a common occurrence so not worth reporting on. I have been looking at a number of marriage records as they appear on Scotland's People & Census records, the writing is all very similar making me wonder if they were all copied from original documents as opposed to being the actual original documents. Has anyone else had the same experience? If they are copies can anyone see the originals?

Tom




Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 21 November 13 17:30 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to Excel I now know how William Sharp of Glendevon died; all the time the answer was in 19th Century British Newspapers which I can access online through my local library. It's all about thinking sideways-I looked in the Scottish Newspapers available without looking in the English Ones and putting in a search for William Sharp instead of Glendevon. Several newspapers reported that a mill-worker called John Sharp had been killed when his friend George Allan, a groom had fired a gun, the contents of which struck Sharp in the face causing his death-a tragic accident it appears, no proceedings were taken against George Allan.

Tom

Offline MonicaL

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 27 November 14 16:15 GMT (UK) »
Tom, just been reading your other post here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=664851.0

Thought best to use this one here as it has all the background to your searches.

What showed on William's birth (marriage/death) cert regarding his father William's occupation? What year was Maggie McGregor born?

Unusual that the registrar let William Snr's name go on the birth cert in the first place...if he wasn't present at the birth. Maybe he was present, in the company of Maggie's father who was the informant (not a happy gathering you would think  ::)). Normally both parents would need to be present, where the birth is illegitimate, to enable the father's name to go on the cert at all. If he was not present, normally the birth was registered only under the mother's maiden surname. If at a later date, such as in this case, where Maggie took legal action against the father for maintenance, the registrar would go back to the birth registration and make a note (indicating there was a further entry with more info on the Register of Corrected entries - RCEs). The RCEs references normally show on the left hand side margin, next to the first column. Scotlands People have been adding these RCEs, where available, to their images over the years.

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 27 November 14 16:24 GMT (UK) »

...I have been looking at a number of marriage records as they appear on Scotland's People & Census records, the writing is all very similar making me wonder if they were all copied from original documents as opposed to being the actual original documents. Has anyone else had the same experience? If they are copies can anyone see the originals?



Forfarian gave me an excellent explanation for this and happy for me to quote:

There were two copies of each register. One was the original, signed by the informant/couple themselves. The other was a duplicate made by the Registrar. At the end of each year the Registrar had to send one copy to Edinburgh. If he sent the original, you get the actual signatures on SP, but if he sent the copy you don't.

The copy not sent to Edinburgh was retained by the Registrar and in due course most of them were collected in a central registration office in each county. There was a move to destroy some if not all of these, whcih was being fought by the genealogical world. I don't know what the outcome is.


I was doing some research the other day where getting the original signature was vital for the bride, to then confirm the signature with other documents. Thankfully she married twice. First time, SP had imaged up the original register with her original signature. The second marriage was a copy by the registrar that had then been sent to Edinburgh, used to provide the image by SP in later years.

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 27 November 14 16:51 GMT (UK) »

What year was Maggie McGregor born?


Was just trying to get a feel for how old Maggie was when she had son William. So, she would have been about 19?

Is this her birth here in 1869? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY55-8N5 and then the family entry in 1881, with father David being the informant?

David McGregor 55 bootmaker b. Arngask, Perthshire
Christian McGregor 54
Mary McGregor 18
Jessie McGregor 16
Margaret McGregor 11 b. Orwell
Christian Coventry 87 mother in law
Address: Town Hall Commercial Hotel New Rd, Milnathort, Orwell

William McGregor, shows with his maternal grandparents in 1891 and 1901 at the same address.

Tom, I know you have all of this  ;) Just trying to check how old Maggie was against any possible William Sharps!

Monica
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Offline Tom Piper

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Re: William Sharp of Sandhole by Tillicoultry
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 27 November 14 18:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica,

Yes Maggie McGregor born 1869: 
Name:   Margaret Mcgregor, Birth Date: 03 November 1869
Birthplace:    Orwell, Kinrossshire, Scotland
Daughter of David Mcgregor & Christian Coventry

So on 4 January 1888 she would have been 19.

Tom