Author Topic: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817  (Read 2835 times)

Offline mcmon30

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James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« on: Sunday 06 October 13 00:08 BST (UK) »
Well after a computer malfunction and a complete clean up program with a virus or 3 I have a new computer and by chance a link up with this chat room.

Hence I would like to catch up with Jenni if possible to make the arrangement we started some time back . Any other descendants of the above couple I would love to contact to see if we can go back earlier due to an impass with a lack of details particularly on the death cert..

John
McMon30

Offline Flattybasher9

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 06 October 13 10:29 BST (UK) »
In addition to my PM having mentioned the 1851 census, and the transcription, place of birth for James, "Inverness, Aberdeenshire", which is obviously problematic, I note that there is a christening for a James Moir, 25 February 1781, Inverurie, Aberdeenshire, Scotland, his father being Andrew Moir.
I wonder if the location has been misscribed from Inverurie to Inverness.


Regards

Malky

Added :-  http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/168194/textcontribution/legatesden+house/

Click on "View this site on a map".

Offline mcmon30

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #2 on: Monday 07 October 13 00:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Malky,

Yes I was aware of the Andrew Moir family that mostly were listed in Inverurie. We did not think they lined up with family names for the family of James. Tradition dies hard especially in those earlier years. So the Jury is still out re Andrew.
The only factor that keeps him in the loop is he also had a daughter Helen. There is a Helen who married Jonathan Davie and they both were witnesses to some of James children.
There was a James Moir in Aberdeen who I believe may have been a minister. There were a few about which, unless the family members fill in some details on the death certificate, make it difficult to sort.
J

Offline mcmon30

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #3 on: Friday 01 May 20 03:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Folks:
Much water under the bridge. However a few new facts have emerged that may lead to a clearer idea about our James. It is clear that he was originally JAMES MORE when he was married and for the births of his first 4 children so that is narrowing the amount of data to be scanned.
In a letter to a descendent of Alexander More (2nd son of James More) stated that the family were involved in pharmaceutical while at Legatesden (old spelling version was Leggets Den) pre 1829 and may account for the buying of properties for the sons - David at Ordiquihill, Alexander (no idea as he has only recently come into focus in Australia), allowing Jonathon to greatly expand Little Blackton and James More to be heavily involved at Caple Castle and James Moir the 5th son to have a property near Forres. All yet to be clarified.

So if Jenni could let me know a contact detail I have extra news about her ancestor's marriage she wanted facts on.


Offline Forfarian

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Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #5 on: Friday 01 May 20 10:57 BST (UK) »
The 1841 census gives James Moir's age as 55. Adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So he could have been any age from 55 to 59.

The 1841 census was taken on 7 June so if his age is accurate it means he was born between 8 June 1781 and 7 June 1786.

The 1851 census says he was 68. The 1851 census was taken on 30 March so if his age is accurate he was born between 31 March 1782 and 30 March 1783.

The 1861 census says he was 76. The census was taken on 7 April so if his age is accurate he was born between 8 April 1784 and 7 April 1785.

The 1851 and 1861 ages are clearly incompatible with one another, but either is compatible with his age in 1841.

In the transcription I am using (https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl) both the 1851 and 1861 say that he was born in Inverury. You should view the originals of these census at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to satisfy yourself whether it reads Inverurie or Inverness. (And if it is Inverurie, use a better transcription in future :) )

Noting that none of James' five sons was named Andrew does rather suggest that his father is not likely to have been Andrew. I see that Janet's parents were Alexander and Isabella, which is in line with the naming tradition, so I would expect James' parents to have been James and Janet.

Helen More married Jonathan Davie in Chapel of Garioch in 1817. In 1841 a Jonathan Davie, 64, was farming at Kirktown of Rayne. The only other Davie in the household is Catherine Davie. She is clearly too young to have been Helen's daughter. There is a marriage of Jonathan Davie to Catherine Milne in 1835 in Rayne. So it looks as if Helen More or Davie must have died before 1835.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline mcmon30

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #6 on: Friday 01 May 20 12:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Jenni.

I finally tracked down a source of data and with that a few more references for you to look up.
The following is from the national Library in Australia.
It clearly shows the marriage you mentioned - it appears to be the marriage of Alexanders son.
Dear John,

Thank you for contacting the National Library of Australia.

I believe you are interested in locating information relating to your Scottish ancestor Alexander More. You have indicated he arrived 1848 on board the Charlotte Jane and may have been married to Sarah Mackeridge.

I have located a copy of the 8 October 1848 passenger record for Alexander Moir on board the Charlotte Jane. The surname is spelt Moir not More. This could be a spelling error. You can access a copy of this passenger record or the complete passenger list via the State Records of NSW. This record indicates he was a farm servant, 27 years, Presbyterian and was from Chapel of Garioch, Aberdeenshire, Scotland.

I have searched the NSW marriage index via the NSW Births, Deaths and Marriage Registry Office website. The closest match I was able to locate was a 1885 marriage record for Alexander Moir to Sarah Muckeridge in Sydney, please find details below. If this is the same Alexander Moir then this would make him approximately 64 years of age at the time of marriage. If you would like a copy of the certificate, please contact the NSW Births, Deaths and Marriage Registry Office. The following could be helpful: What you can expect to see on an historical* AUS BDM certificate


Groom: Alexander Moir
Bride:Sarah Muckeridge
District: Sydney
Year: 1885
Registration number:2021

You also may like to search for Australian records via the Ancestry (Library edition) database. This database is usually restricted to onsite use but due to the COVID-19 pandemic registered National Library of Australia users can access this database until 31st May 2020.There is no cost to join. Fill in the online registration form and a card will be posted out to you. Once you have your Library card you can login with your User ID (number on the back of your library card) and surname via the eResources portal or catalogue to access the Ancestry (Library edition) database or other licenced resources. You will be able to download records or print images from the Ancestry (Library edition) database. Please refer to the eResources guide page for more information about how to access databases offsite.

You can access Scottish records using the National Records of Scotland official government website called Scotlands People. You can freely search for records on this database but you will have to pay to access any records.

The National Library of Scotland has a guide on researching your Scottish family history that you may find helpful.

You may like to search in Trove using your ancestors name. The following links will provide Trove search tips:Trove Help videos & Searching newspapers and gazettes

I hope this information is of assistance and good luck with your family history research.

Kind Regards,

Leisa Fox
Reference Librarian
Reader Services
National Library of Australia
I hope you find this useful.

Regards J


Offline mcmon30

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 26 May 20 02:39 BST (UK) »
I have been looking for a clear resolution for the parents of James More for neigh on 40 years and still I am no closer to an answer I can accept.
The latest I observed yesterday was shown as all the details were correct after his marriage but not hei birth. It was shown as Inverness. No where in any of the original documents I have is inverness shown. The only reference to his birth place is in the census returns. They show Inverury and once shows the new accepted name of Inverurie. The original name was Inverurie and for some reason the version Inverury was use. Because it was apparently confusing with Inverarity and one other the City decide to use Inverury and the Officials in the Government accepted that the name to use.
Because James was James MORE in his marriage - I have an authorised copy of the marriage certificate where he is named as James MORE that is definite. His first 4 children were named and recorded as MORE there can only be 2 outcomes. Either the Minister could not spell the local idiom or James decided to change to the local version more accepted (maybe) and so the change occurred. Because I have a confirmation that the family were involved in Pharmaceuticals at Legatesden and afterwards at Little Blackton they may have decided to change their name to upgrade themselves. The meaning of MOIR is big and that apparently can apply to size of stature or a higher stua in life. Because Moir men are generally over 6 feet that is the usual explanation. The book Wee Geordie was about an athlete near Bennichie named George Moir and he was around 6ft 2 inches - my height. He was a top caber and ball tosser (needs explaining to some) and won a lot of challenges in the various Highland Games.
After all that I would like to know how the searcher that listed the parents and place of his family at that time to be Inverness. There is also a listing for Glass. In both cases I can find any correlation. The family have had a tradition of naming their children in a fairly constant pattern.
I will see what eventuates

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James Moir and janet Davidson married Dec 27th 1817
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 26 May 20 07:36 BST (UK) »
Please stop getting so obsessed with spelling. Until the late 19th century there was no concept of 'correct' spelling. Names of people and places were just spelled as the clerk writing them down thought they might be spelled. More and Moir are just variant spellings, as are Inverurie/Inverury and Legatesden/Leggets Den. Trying to read any significance into spelling variations is only making your task harder for you.

If you look at the first edition of the Ordnance Survey six-inch map, surveyed in 1866 https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14&lat=57.28223&lon=-2.40507&layers=5&b=1 you can see that the parish is spelled Inverury and the town (which is not by any stretch of the imagination a city) is spelled Inverurie.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.