Author Topic: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??  (Read 34948 times)

Online sugarbakers

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #18 on: Monday 28 October 13 15:33 GMT (UK) »
Ummm ... I've now studied the database ... so after all Berlin-Bob's suggestions and options in those early posts, and his hard work since, we finish up with a simple database of PBs and their researchers rather than a database of PBs and as much info as can be gleaned about them. This confirmed my initial suspicion that, whilst folks wanted a database of PBs, they didn't want to give up their own research for public use.

After my conversations with RichardFunk last year, before the Rootschat discussion began, things looked promising, however I'm now disappointed that a) none of the researchers stepped up to take the role of compiler, and b) that new researchers will be able to find the PB name they are looking for on the internet but will have no sources to study other than those which the contributing researcher is prepared to give them.

It's a shame the PB database will have no referenced/verifiable facts for researchers to use, but I guess that's up to the current group of PB researchers.

Bryan.
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen).

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
44,000+ database entries, 260+ fatalities, 210+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 300+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

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Offline SwissGill

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #19 on: Monday 28 October 13 18:56 GMT (UK) »
Bryan,

I find your comments, offensive, to say the least.

I have never withheld information on my German pork butcher ancestors and have added as much information which I have found during my extensive searches in the Internet. I have a public tree on Ancestry.com where anyone can and does make use of my research.

There are hundreds of names on the database, wrongly spelt, also without any reference, etc. Who entered them? You tell me.

To suggest that people have not wished to make their findings public is unfair. If you have concrete information that this is so, then please make it known.

In the course of my research, I try to ascertain the origin of the German immigrants, some of which are not related to me. However, this helps other researchers to find the roots of their ancestors. The pork butchers I have entered have been seriously researched and I resent your comments that this is not so.
 
Whitlow: Witton-cum-Twambrooks/Northwich
Owen: Cheshire
Pfisterer (Fisher): West Riding Yks 1850-1875
Fisher (Pfisterer): Des Moines, Iowa 1886-
Wallis: West Riding Yks/Des Moines, Iowa, 1892-
Heinzmann: Hull/Northwich
Pfisterer, Heinzmann, Künzelsau, Baden-Württemberg
Brueck: Kocherstetten B-W
Volpp: Morsbach B-W
Schluchterer: Künzelsau, B-W

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Online sugarbakers

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #20 on: Monday 28 October 13 23:03 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, SwissGill, I might have been a bit harsh and I certainly did not mean any offence to you personally, my comments are more general.

I am concerned that given the positive comments and ideas from a number of PB researchers at the start of the discussion process, not all are being implemented in the current database.
I don't doubt the accuracy of your research, but if you'll allow me to say so, please, I don't think it is being displayed as such by the design of the database. Histres, in #26 of the original DBSIG PB Topic, posted an image of sample entries that showed every fact referenced ... this is not being done on the database. My own Sugarbakers database has every entry referenced (though a few early ones now appear a bit vague) so that researchers can use both the entry and the original source for their work. As you implied, unreferenced work is a pain to researchers.
As to wrongly spelt names, if they are wrongly spelt in the original then they should stay wrongly spelt, or at least the wrong spellings acknowledged, otherwise they cannot be found in the original sources.

The PB database would appear to be more complex than that of Sugarbakers, but not because there's a great deal of difference in the facts it will hold. Pork Butchers is a collective, it's a repository for researchers' years of hard work, and it will become a very useful and well regarded source of reference for many researchers, but it has to get it right from the start ... I know this from my own experience.


Bryan
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen).

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
44,000+ database entries, 260+ fatalities, 210+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 300+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline SwissGill

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 29 October 13 07:23 GMT (UK) »
Hello Bryan

I didn't take it personally and you are right about not changing the transcriptions. I have made numerous "additions" on Ancestry but the transcribed name is always given, plus the alternative name, birthplace, etc. This is something very important to me. To find the records, the transcribed name is essential. However, the original name is the only one that can lead us to our ancestors, especially in Germany.

This was what disturbed me:

This confirmed my initial suspicion that, whilst folks wanted a database of PBs, they didn't want to give up their own research for public use.

I am sure that this isn't the case with the majority but, as you say you have studied the database, you will know that from the very start we had 1700 pork butchers in the database.

You also say that it has to be right from the beginning. For me it has always been too large. I would have preferred that we, as researchers, would enter own ancestors and let the database grow slowly. This is no reflection on the work which has been carried out but I find often find it bewildering.

Now, as you have openly given your opinions, would you feel up to offering some constructive advice?

No hard feelings  :)

Gill

Whitlow: Witton-cum-Twambrooks/Northwich
Owen: Cheshire
Pfisterer (Fisher): West Riding Yks 1850-1875
Fisher (Pfisterer): Des Moines, Iowa 1886-
Wallis: West Riding Yks/Des Moines, Iowa, 1892-
Heinzmann: Hull/Northwich
Pfisterer, Heinzmann, Künzelsau, Baden-Württemberg
Brueck: Kocherstetten B-W
Volpp: Morsbach B-W
Schluchterer: Künzelsau, B-W

Online sugarbakers

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 29 October 13 21:00 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, SwissGill ...

For an occupational database to be credible every fact should be referenced and every entry should be owned.

I don't have the latter concern with my own database as it has a single compiler, however the PB database has multiple compilers, so every submitter must ensure their username accompanies every entry. For clarity of ownership I think the 'Researchers' column on the front page should be replaced by 'Submitters' ... there's already a box for 'Researchers' on the detail page. I would suggest that if there are entries on the current database that are not owned they should be deleted. If the unknown submitters find their entries missing they can simply re-enter them along with their username.

Every fact that is entered on the entry's detail page should have a reference. Rather than the vague 'Sources' line, there is plenty of room for a column to the right into which source/reference could be placed next to each 'fact'. If it's a census give the reference, a will give the PRO or Probate reference, an abode should have the directory/GRO cert/census, and if the best info to date comes from a letter from Granny, it should say so. I do wonder, as this database is very family-based, whether there's a place for ?? against uncertain family connections.

... and one more point, if I may ...

I have found that there is one serious omission on my database ... a narrow column far right for the month/year of addition of each entry to the database. This would help me trace back to references/notes/old emails when asked questions about the entry.

... and a techie point ... some text is not coding correctly on the final image, eg: ID1396. Maybe some general guidance is needed about this.

I hope this helps.
Bryan.
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen).

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
44,000+ database entries, 260+ fatalities, 210+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 300+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline SwissGill

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #23 on: Friday 15 November 13 13:07 GMT (UK) »
Has this died a premature death.? It would be a pity if it had.

Whitlow: Witton-cum-Twambrooks/Northwich
Owen: Cheshire
Pfisterer (Fisher): West Riding Yks 1850-1875
Fisher (Pfisterer): Des Moines, Iowa 1886-
Wallis: West Riding Yks/Des Moines, Iowa, 1892-
Heinzmann: Hull/Northwich
Pfisterer, Heinzmann, Künzelsau, Baden-Württemberg
Brueck: Kocherstetten B-W
Volpp: Morsbach B-W
Schluchterer: Künzelsau, B-W

Offline SwissGill

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 17 November 13 15:44 GMT (UK) »
Is nobody interested in this database?

Please let me know. What is the point of my searching further for pork butchers if this is not of interest?
Whitlow: Witton-cum-Twambrooks/Northwich
Owen: Cheshire
Pfisterer (Fisher): West Riding Yks 1850-1875
Fisher (Pfisterer): Des Moines, Iowa 1886-
Wallis: West Riding Yks/Des Moines, Iowa, 1892-
Heinzmann: Hull/Northwich
Pfisterer, Heinzmann, Künzelsau, Baden-Württemberg
Brueck: Kocherstetten B-W
Volpp: Morsbach B-W
Schluchterer: Künzelsau, B-W

Offline SwissGill

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 24 November 13 16:39 GMT (UK) »
I am truly disturbed that no one has posted on this thread lately.

It is not healthy to be left in uncertainty as to the outcome of the Pork Butchers' database.

I implore those who are "in the know", maybe to address a few words, whether good or bad.

No news is good news, one says, but in this case, I do not agree.

Please could at least one of you reply?

Gill
Whitlow: Witton-cum-Twambrooks/Northwich
Owen: Cheshire
Pfisterer (Fisher): West Riding Yks 1850-1875
Fisher (Pfisterer): Des Moines, Iowa 1886-
Wallis: West Riding Yks/Des Moines, Iowa, 1892-
Heinzmann: Hull/Northwich
Pfisterer, Heinzmann, Künzelsau, Baden-Württemberg
Brueck: Kocherstetten B-W
Volpp: Morsbach B-W
Schluchterer: Künzelsau, B-W

Offline Berlin-Bob

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Re: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
« Reply #26 on: Monday 25 November 13 07:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gill,

I've deliberately stayed out of this for a while to wait for feedback, but as you say, no one is responding.

To all:

The database is there "as is" for general use and will remain;  this discussion is only about who is allowed to edit it and how. And, as further discussion point, a review of what you want to achieve with this database.

As Brian said, a multi-user database is harder to manage than a database designed and submitted by one person.  Brian's sugar bakers database has only one line of info. for each person, with a source for that information. 

As I have understood it, our goal has also been to provide a list of german pork butchers, but also to provide as much information as possible about each individual (with possibilities of establishing connections and relationships)

If sources are important, then we would need a way of "sourcing" every item entered for each person.  Or you can expand each of the individual entry fields to provide the source (census, BMD, etc) of that particular piece of information. i.e. addresses "36 High Street, Bolton [1901 census]", "3 Sausage Lane, Leeds [Death cert.]" etc.

I personally have no particular link to German Pork Butchers, other than helping out with the database software, so I need your input about how you want to use the database.

regards,
Bob
Any UK Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

My research interests (and data found) can be seen on my website:   http://www.margulies-chronicles.com/