Author Topic: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry  (Read 20409 times)

Offline Revolution

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 09 October 14 09:58 BST (UK) »
Thank you again SelDen

Ive plotted James into ancestry and quite a few matching records and of course thats a phenomenal number of children. Ive traced other families and been able to get back to the  early 1600s yet Thomas and his family are a mystery.

Looks like Ill have to order a few records. I havent found the GRO ordering that easy but the Durham records online seems much easier.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
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Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline Revolution

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #19 on: Friday 10 October 14 23:34 BST (UK) »
Ive plotted some of this into ancestry. Some Im still confused about some of them and some Im putting in info just to see if there are any links.

John Potts Halbert b abt 1768 married Ann Nixon/Hixon on 28 Jan 1794
Son: John Potts Halbert born in 1794 and he appears to have died in 1795

John Potts Halbert then marries Mary ?
Daughter: Mary Ann Halbert in 1798
Daughter: Alice Potts Halbert in 1799
Son: William in 1800
Daughter: Elizabeth in 1801
Son: John Potts in 1808
Son: Richard Jackson in 1809


These Halberts and others had huge families.

As you mentioned John Halbert married Dorothy Gibson and had at least 2 children - Mary and Sarah Halbert. Mary went on to marry David Carrott. The earliest record we have is that Thomas Jr in New Zealand said that Mary was his fathers (Thomas Halbert) sister. This could have been confused and she may have been a cousin whom he was close to.

John then married Barbara -after Dorothy died and had around 14 kids.

John Halbert appears to have had a number of siblings William, Alice, Sarah, Elizabeth and George Potts. Ive not been able to find a Thomas Halbert in the same age bracket who would be the father of my English born Thomas 1806-1865. Ive put a Thomas in as the sibling of William, Alice etc. This Thomas would have to have been older by at least 6 years than his next sibling William Halbert b 1792 just to be around 20 when Thomas was born. I added an arbitrary birth date of 1786 to fit this 'idea'. As its unlikely there was a large gap between Thomas and his younger sibling there may be other children.

How likely/unlikely would the person recording the baptism have been to misrecord Thomas fathers name? His occupation was listed as Tailor

The Alice Halbert born in 1794 father William Halbert was also a Tailor.

I havent found any trace of Thomas and Sarah Halbert having other kids nor deaths of either.

McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline barryd

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 11 October 14 01:08 BST (UK) »
"Have you tried "Durham Records Online". The Gateshead filter starts off with Alice Potts Halbert. Searching the whole county brings up pages of them. I personally had never come across the name before.

I answered some months ago but tried again. Both a Gateshead search and an "all districts" search on Durham Records Online for any child of Thomas Halbert/Sarah brings up only Thomas baptized in 1814 which you already know.

Offline Revolution

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 11 October 14 05:12 BST (UK) »
Hi barryd

Im just unsure about which would be relevant records without a matching Thomas and Sarah Halbert.

There is always the possibility that Thomas Halbert b 1806 parents died after his baptism or had died prior to being baptised and that when he was baptised at the same time as Sarah Halbert they recognised who his parents were? John and Dorothy were Sarahs parents.

Ive been watching the Durham records each time I get an email to say its been updated but no deaths of Thomas parents pop up nor other info about Thomas.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick


Offline SelDen

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 11 October 14 08:00 BST (UK) »
Hi - what does the burial entry for the John Potts Halbert who was buried in 1795 say? Do you have the full entry?

It is very easy to get all those John Potts & George Potts mixed up.

I also meant to check whether you have sighted the actual baptism entry for Thomas Halbert in 1814 - did your researcher send it through, i.e. an image of the entry? While www.familysearch.org has a birth date of 1806 for this baptism, www.freereg.org.uk & Durhamrecordsonline do not - they just have the baptism date.  It it is possible both the latter have relied on the Bishop's Transcript which did not include the birthdate. Hopefully the researcher went to the original parish register.

Have been looking at this group of baptisms - no firm conclusions yet, not even sure if it is the same William, but it does present another possibility for the Thomas Halbert baptism:

William (Junior) Halbert & Margaret - & Sarah?

William born 5 Dec 1792 bap 6 Jan 1793 s/o William & Sarah Halbert, father a Taylor
Baptisms, St John the Baptist, Newcastle upon Tyne

Alice born 1 April 1794 & baptised 23 April 1794 daughter of William Halbert junr & Margaret Halbert, Tailor, St John
Brunswick Chapel, Wesleyan Newcastle upon Tyne

George Potts Halbert baptised 9 March 1802 son of William Jun’r Halbert & Sarah Halbert
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel, Newcastle upon Tyne

I think the George Potts Halbert born 1802 may be the future Master Mariner:
16 Sep 1827 George Halbert married Ann Innes All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne

Mr Geo Halbert to Ann, eldest daughter of Mr George Innis, of London
Newcastle Magazine vol 6 no X Oct 1827

no 1455 George Halbert, 36, Newcastle, Master, Hepburn Hall of Whitby
Merchant Seaman - 1835 BT120

George Potts bap 29 Aug 1828 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, Pilgrim St, Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne

Ann bap 25 May 1831 d/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, Tyne St, father a Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints - Family Search

William Kennedy bap 2 Jan 1833 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, Clarence St, father a Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints

Thomas bap 10 Oct 1834 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, No. Shore, father a Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints

Frederick bap 17 June 1836 s/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, No. Shore, father a Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints

Henry Horatio bap 4 July 1837
Baptisms, All Saints - Family Search

Deaths Sep 1839   HALBERT Henry Horatio Newcastle on Tyne

Elizabeth Innes bap 18 June 1839
Baptisms, All Saints - Family Search

Sarah Emma bap 5 Oct 1841 d/o George Potts & Ann Halbert, No. Shore, father a Master Mariner
Baptisms, All Saints

1851 Census HO107/1546
St Mary Whitechapel, St Mark, Tower Hamlets
6 Tender St
George Halbert Hd Mar 48 Master Mariner Newcastle upon Tyne
Ann 44 wife Newcastle upon Tyne
Anne 20 dau Unmarried Newcastle upon Tyne
William 18 son Unmarried Ship Broker’s Junior Clerk Newcastle upon Tyne
Frederick son Unmarried 15 Solicitor’s Junior Clerk Newcastle upon Tyne
Elizabeth dau 11 Newcastle upon Tyne
Sarah E dau 9 Newcastle upon Tyne
Septimus 7 son Newcastle upon Tyne

Died at sea 2 Sep 1851 on board the bark Ellen of London, on her passage from Sierra Leone, aged 49, deeply regretted, Mr George Potts Halbert, who for 24 years sailed out of this port as captain
Newcastle Courant, 24 Oct 1851

Offline SelDen

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 11 October 14 08:39 BST (UK) »
I have been looking at William & Alice/Alison Halbert who seem to have started off the large Halbert family.

As I noted earlier, www.familysearch.org has a marriage between a William Halbert & Alice/Alison Potts in Kelso, Roxburgh 21 August 1763. At that date there may be no extra details but always worth checking, either on http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk (instant gratification at a cost) or order the film through the LDS family history centre - the number will be on the familysearch index entry.

I have posted a look up request on the Northumberland board for their burials, which are apparently in the Ballast Hills Burial Ground (a non-con burial ground in Newcastle). The ages may or may not rule the marriage out.

Otherwise a possible scenario would be that this couple married in Kelso (which had a textile 'industry') and had some children before the ones that show up below. The Castle Garth Chapel in Newcastle was a Scottish Relief Church congregation, and there was a church of this denomination in Kelso later on, at least. However if any records survive they may only be available in Edinburgh - but maybe check this statement on the ROX board. Otherwise they may have had the earlier children in Newcastle, but we have not yet found them, or the records have not survived, or were not kept (non-con ministers varied considerably in the quality and quantity of their record keeping).

The Edinburgh Annual Register for 1826 notes the death of a John Potts Halbert late of Newcastle upon Tyne in his 59th year - giving a birth date of abt 1768 - another possible son for William senior & Alice/Alison?

Added: This would be the John Potts Halbert who married Anne _ixon by Licence in All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne as per your notes, with the groom being  26 & the bride 22. See here for the marriage bond etc on www.familysearch.org
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11897-19197-24?cc=1675690&wc=M6KL-XZS:129238501,129238502

In the 1770s-1780s William Halbert (senior), Tailor, Newcastle upon Tyne took on several apprentices (note that if he made any of his sons his own apprentices these would not show up in the records of apprenticeship indentures).

Newcastle trade directories for the early 1780s have:
Halbert, William, Woollen draper, Castlestairs

William senior had died by 19 Dec 1803, the date of a newspaper notice to creditors and debtors by his son Geo Halbert, sole Executor of William’s will.

William & Alice Halbert said to be buried in Ballast Hills Burial Ground - no date.

In 1806 George and Alice Potts (mother & son? or did George Halbert marry an Alice?) were declared bankrupt.
Morning Chronicle, 1  Oct 1806

Children

George s/o Wm & Alison Halbert bap 21 Mar 1773
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

Possible death?
Gateshead - 14th inst [July 1822] at the Windmill Hills aged 49, Mr George Halbert formerly of Newcastle
Durham Advertiser, 27 July 1822

Elizabeth bap 19 Mar 1775 d/o William & Aley Halbert
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

   On Sat last at St Nicholas’ Church, Mr Matthew Corner, of Gateshead, builder, to Miss       Halbert, daughter of the late Mr W Halbert, of the Castle Garth, in this town, draper
   Newcastle Courant 22 June 1805

   Elizabeth Halbert of this parish married Matthew Corner, Gateshead on 15 June 1805
   Marriages, St Nicholas, Newcastle upon Tyne

Alice d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 27 Feb 1778
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

   Possibly?
   Alice Halbert of this parish married Edward Aikine Davidson of the chapelry of St John on16    May 1804, witnesses John Thompson & Thomas Brown (both frequent witnesses)
   St Nicholas Marriages, Newcastle upon Tyne

Joseph s/o William & Alice Halbert bap 2 Jan 1780
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

Robert s/o William & Alice Halbert bap 18 Nov 1781
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

Isabella d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 2 Apr 1783
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

Ann d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 20 Nov 1785
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

Jane d/o William & Alice Halbert bap 7 Oct 1787
Baptisms, Castle Garth Chapel - Family Search

Offline SelDen

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 11 October 14 08:54 BST (UK) »

John Halbert appears to have had a number of siblings William, Alice, Sarah, Elizabeth and George Potts.

Do you think John Halbert the Cork Cutter (father of Mary Carrott) is the son of William senior & Alice Halbert? I think he has to be a grandson, given his age. I was looking at the baptism in 1794, and it looks as if you may have killed that baby off  :) (which is why I wanted to check the wording of the burial entry).

As you will see from my previous entry, I do think that there is room for William senior & Alice to have had several more children before the first baptism that shows up in Castle Garth Chapel, if they are the couple who married in Kelso and I haven't emptied a huge basket of red herrings over your research ??? These children could have been born in Newcastle upon Tyne, Kelso, or somewhere else. The Halberts didn't stay put.

Offline Revolution

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 11 October 14 09:37 BST (UK) »
HI SelDen

Yes she sited and sent me the original copies of the register. I cant see the birthdate but can see the baptism date and Thomas parents names. I can also see the entry for Sarah Halbert on the same day with the other parents.

There is an Alice Halbert, daughter of Alice Halbert

Alice Halbert
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975   christening: 27 February 1778, Castle Garth Chapel, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
residence:   Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
father:William Halbert
mother:Alice Halbert

Im going to have to site down and map all the great info you have provided.

Is the William Sr the one who died in 1804 and William Jr who was born around 1860 the one who died in 1804

Ill go the instant gratification route after seeing if my researcher hasnt already sent me the info. She looked into the Scottish parents for Thomas but found no matches but I dont think looked at his fathers family.

Thank you for posting the lookup.

Ive printed the form to get the Wills of Alice Halbert and also William Halbert who died in 1804.
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick

Offline Revolution

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Re: Tracing Thomas Halberts Ancestry
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 11 October 14 09:50 BST (UK) »
From what Ive been able to find:

John Halbert b abt 1795 and died in 1854 parent was William Jr who married a Sarah. There is a refernce to him being William Jr so that would make his father William Sr (I hope).

William Sr married someone named Ann

Theres at least three generations of William Halberts.

Im hoping this is the right John Halbert - son of William Jr Halbert

Name:    Jn. Halbert
Gender:    Male
Birth Date:    27 Sep 1796
Birthplace:    CASTLE GARTH PRESBYTERIAN-NC,NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE,NORTHUMBERLAND,ENGLAND
Father's Name:    Wm. Halbert
Mother's Name:    Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P00426-1 , System Origin: England-ODM , GS Film number: 95016
McGaveston - Dublin-Ireland, France, New Zealand
White - Shalden, Alton, Chawton-Hampshire
O'Donnell - New Zealand, Co Down-Northern Ireland, USA
Franklin/Fraenkel - New Zealand, Prussia
Day - Echuca, Tongala, London, Fairford-Gloucestershire
Clark/McGraw - New Zealand, Ireland, England
McMahon -Ipswich-QLD, Kiladysart-Co Clare
Smith - Ipswich, Pine Mountain, Redbank-QLD, Co Westmeath, Co Cavan-Ireland
McGuire - Redbank - QLD, Co Westmeath-Ireland
Culhane - Queensland, Ardlaghan - Co Limerick