Illegitimate birth in Cilcain (1816)

[Huwcyn]

My gg grandmother, Elinor Williams,  was baptised at Cilcain on 26/12/1816. She was described as being the illegitimate daughter of Peter Williams, a servant of Hesp (?) , and Anne ......., of Frondeg.
I have been unable to get any more information on these two, and i'm afraid I'm unfamiliar with the area. The IGI records show quite a few births to a Peter williams and Anne around this time, but since one or two pre-date this one, I can only assume that the Anne is not the same. If anybody has access to any further records, or has any ideas as to the identity of the two, I'd be very grateful for any advice.

[everlea]

Hi - don't know if this might help at all, but there's an area near Cilcain called Hesp Alyn,& a Hesp

Alyn Farm.

                                                                                     Regards

                                                                                             Everlea.

[Jo Harding]

Hello Huwcyn,

What was the source of the information you have for the details given on the parents in the baptismal record?

The entry on the transcription for this on FindMyPast doesn't state Elinor was illegitimate. The details suggest that she was the legitimate daughter of Peter and Anne Williams. I haven't had chance to look at the parish record for this.

I found the 1813 baptism for Elizabeth Williams, d/o Peter and Anne Williams, in Cilcain. Another one was for Peter,s/o Peter and Anne Williams in 1818. Both of these indicate they were legitimate children of that couple. What others do you have please?

There was a marriage in Cilcain in 1810 for Peter Williams, widower, to Margaret Williams, spinster, per the transcription but the register entry looked more like Marjery to me. I will look at this again.

It is probable there were two couples by the names of Peter and Anne Williams around there at that time.

I can access PRs on FindMyPast so will have a good look in due course.

Jo.

[trish1120]

All on FreeREG;
WILLIAMS, Baptised Parish Church, Cilcain, Parents PETER/ANNE;
ELIZABETH, 21 July 1813
ELINOR, 26 Dec 1816
PETER, 09 May 1818
MARTHA, 18 March 1821

Trish

[Huwcyn]

My source was work carried out by my father some 30-40 years ago. He's made a note on a piece of  that the 'Cilcain register' refers to the baptism on 26/12/1816 of Elinor , daughter of Peter Williams , servant of 'Hesp' and Anne ......................... (sic) 'Frondeg'.  He's also written down that she was illegitimate. I'm not sure whether the dashes indicate that Anne's surname was illegible, or whether it wasn't indicated. I'd always assumed that the entry was correct.
    My father, unfortunately,  cannot remember now where he read the register, why he noted it as illegitimate, nor what the dashes mean.
   I've also got a note of a Margaret (1830) ,a Sarah ( 1823) and an Edward ( 1827) being born to a Peter Williams and an Anne. I recently looked at a published list of marriages for Cilcain for that period, but drew a blank for likely candidates.

[MargP]

Hi

Could your father have misread Legitimate as Illegitimate, easily done

Margp

[Jo Harding]

I have seen the parish register entry for the baptism of Elinor Williams on 26/12/1816.

Huwcyn, I can confirm the details your father recorded for this. The entry reads, "Elinor Illegitimate daughter, Parents christian name: Peter and Anne. Parents surname: Williams. Abode: Peter's shown as Hisp. Anne's as Frondeg. Peter's occupation: servant".

The entry for Hisp has a Caret (upside down "v" over the "i". In Frondeg, the letter "e" also has this above it.

Underneath Anne's surname there is a series of dashes. It is not clear why but my interpretation would be that her name is Williams as well.

The entry for Peter born 1818, shows he is the son of Peter and Anne Williams of Pentre, Miner.

Elizabeth baptised 1813, is daughter of Peter and Anne Willaims, abode: Silan, Miner.

Martha, baptised 1821, has daughter of Peter and Anne Willaims, abode: Pentre, Farmer.

These appear to be different couples with the parents of Elinor being quite different to both of these.

Jo.

[Huwcyn]

Thank you very much .

[Huwcyn]

I've now noticed that a Peter Williams was born to a Griffith Williams and Anne around 1800 in Cilcain. The same Peter Williams can be found at Ty Isa(f) in 1841, with his mother and siblings, and died in 1844. He's the only Peter Williams in Cilcain whom I can find describing himself as a farmer. (Elinor's marriage in Gwernaffield in the early 1840s describes her father as a farmer). Where is Ty Isaf in relation to the other places we've mentioned ?