Greaves,Grieves,Greeves

[radstockjeff]

This is quite a convoluted query. My Norfolk Greaves etc etc line is giving me a problem. I will start from the 1861 Census and work backwards.

1861 Brancaster  Theodora Greeves b Brancaster 1824 (nee Ward) Widow/pauper.
Children shown. Belinda (19), Alfred(14) Agness (9) Alma (6), Harriet (4) James (2)
Note Lucy (11) living in Brancaster with grandparents John and Lucy Ward.

1851 Brancaster John Greeves b Bircham   Theod Greeves , wife b Brancaster
Children shown  George (10),Alfred (3), Theodo (9) Lucy (1)

1841  No trace

John and Theodora married Wisbech Reg District June qtr 1840

Query 1 Where does Theodo (9) fit in (or could this be another mis-spelling?)- I have not been able to find a birth reg in Norfolk for 1842/43
Query 2  Where was Belinda in 1851?

I am reluctant to obtain too many certificates until I am relatively certain that they are valid.
One difficulty as mentioned above is the variety of different spellings of the name.

Lucy and Agnes both married in South Shields in 1869 and 1871 respectively two brothers Anthony and Thomas W Nurse (Weybourne) and the spelling of their name is given as Grieves.

Interestingly  Theodora's fortunes seem to have changed in 1862 as she was by then in South Shields and remarried (Henry Mitchell) in 1863.
Belinda also married and went to live in South Shields (Robert Hendry)

This family is proving a problem as after the birth of Lucy's second daughter she disappeared and I have yet to find any record of her death.

Sorry about the length of this one but as you can see it is quite convoluted.

Any help appreciated as usual

radstockjeff

[lizdb]

I would imagine maybe Belinda and Theodo are the same person?

[lizdb]

Anthony Nurse is a widower in 1881, living with his 2 children, with his brother Thomas and Agness and their children
RG 11  5017  91  42

The younger child, Georgina Lucy, was born Jan/Feb/Mar 1873

So Lucys death must have been between then and 1881

I thought it was likely to be
Oct/Nov/Dec 1893
Docking
Ref 4b 214
Lucy Ann Nurse

But in fact this one can be ruled out firstly because it is after 1881, and secondly because this lady can be found on censuses up to 1891

So not much help there!

[Yorkslass]

Hi,

I agree with lizdb that Belinda and Theodora could be one and the same.

Pretty sure these baptisms are right - John and Theodora's first two children, baptised at Clenchwarton

The first is a John Thomas Ward Greves -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14263-45159-93?cc=1823613&wc=M947-DBQ:n2004863461

The second is Belinda Susannah -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14263-45217-78?cc=1823613&wc=M947-DBQ:n2004863461

I noticed from the BMD's, that John and Theodora's marriage was registered in the Cambridgeshire area of Wisbeach.

Theodora must have been very young when she married, if she was born 1824 - do you have the marriage certificate?

I just wondered if they were married by licence.

Yorkslass

[berkeley]

 Hi, according to The Norfolk Baptism Project, Brancaster St Mary, Theodora Alicia, 12/12/1824, ma Lucy. Pa John Ward, Dave.

[Yorkslass]

Here's a couple more -

Alfred Augustus Gill Greaves - baptised West Lynn
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11593-57281-73?cc=1416598&wc=MMVP-HKH:1004182299

And the first one I could find in Brancaster - Alma Constantine
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14264-36607-86?cc=1823613&wc=M947-DNJ:1623039362

They moved about a bit!

Actually, John's occupation given on Alma's baptism could explain a lot.

He was a Huxter/Huckster, which in those days was a sort of pedlar or hawker.

Yorkslass

[Yorkslass]

Here's Harriet,

baptised Burnham Deepdale, though abode is shown as Brancaster Staithe -

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14263-36767-98?cc=1823613&wc=M947-DN2:841593634

And Lucy, again baptised Burnham Deepdale
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14263-11733-54?cc=1823613&wc=M947-DDH:n2144748104

Yorkslass

[radstockjeff]

Thanks for the responses so far. The picture is becoming clearer.
I agree that the possibility of Belinda being Theodo seems quite strong but where does the link come- Belinda Susannah to Theodo?

A Theodore(a) also crops up in the 1851 Census in another Greeves family with James and a different set of children, also in Brancaster. Not sure if James was John's brother, they both appear to have been born in Bircham, and maybe Theodore was visiting on the enumeration day!

It also looks as though Alfred Augustus Gill Greeves may have died 1847 as the next born son was named Alfred Gill Greeves. (1847) Gill was the family name of Theodora's mother.

Regarding Lucy and her disappearance there has been a lot of speculation about that and a couple of years ago I was told that she had not died in the 1870s but had gone off with a butcher from Jarrow! If she subsequently took his name then we are never likely to find her ultimate demise.
The theory was that Anthony, her husband called himself a widower perhaps to save face.

When Theodora subsequently went to South Shields she took with her Agnes, Alma and Harriet (1871 Census) and probably Lucy as well.

Thanks again

radstockjeff

[radstockjeff]

With regard to lucy some recent information has come up which suggests that she did "run off" with someone to live in Jarrow and she gave birth there to her third child Lilian. It seems that she might then have married (bigamously) to a Robert Bolam and lived in the newcastle on Tyne area until she was 71. This info still needs some verification but it does hang together pretty well.

radstockjeff