Author Topic: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909  (Read 7514 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 14 November 13 03:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

An official transcription of the birth cert for William BROWN (no "e") registered PEAK HILL, with parents Richard and Mary, should give you the names and ages of his older siblings, and the details for his parents too.   #34471.   Perhaps Mary Uriah Louise was an older sibling and noted on his bc.    I am not sure when the NSW BDM started to handle registrations at Peak Hill rather than expecting these to be made say at Parkes or Dubbo but I suspect it could be somewhere in the mid 1890s. 

Yes, the information about the bride's parents is first hand information provided by the bride.  Same deal with the groom's details about his parents, that first hand from the groom.

May I please ask you to type up the info from the 1909 mc,

Date and place of marriage

Bridegroom's
full name,
occupation,
place of residence,
conjugal status,
place and date of birth,
age,
father's name and
mother's maiden name

Bride's full name,
occupation,
place of residence,
conjugal status,
place and date of birth,
age,
father's name and mother's maiden name

Married
In the
according to :

And of course
 
Minister's name
and
the names of the witnesses

Edited to fix error in Mary's middle name

Cheers,  JM   
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Offline majm

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 14 November 13 07:17 GMT (UK) »
NSW ER 1878 WELLINGTON
Uriah WRIGHT qualified as a resident, Hawkins' Hill.  (in the Wellington Police District)

Too many with surname BROWN and none with BROWNE on that roll, happy to type up if Tom Mix thinks this could help.

I note that a Uriah WRIGHT and his older brother arrived 1876 on the Samuel Plimsoll.  They were from Cornwall.     I note that a Uriah WRIGHT married in 1887 with Margaret OSBORNE at Blayney  (#4382)

Add
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17225733 SMH 31 Jan 1936, death in WA of Margaret, formerly of Blayney, wife of Uriah WRIGHT

NSW Patent application at NAA for an improved amalgamating pan 1891, Specs by Edward Charlton and Uriah Wright. 


Cheers,  JM
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Offline Baxterjm55

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 14 November 13 10:34 GMT (UK) »
Once again, a big thank you to all,  for all the information you have posted.

I still have 2 queries though.

1. If my Mary Browne is possibly the unnamed child b.1888? to Richard Browne & Mary Wright, then at sometime, she would have to be given her name, and that would have to be recorded somewhere.

2. If the other siblings, BDM's are recorded, why not this unnamed child? Any suggestions as how to follow this up.

Many thanks,

Jeanette.


Offline majm

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 14 November 13 11:41 GMT (UK) »
Once again, a big thank you to all,  for all the information you have posted.

I still have 2 queries though.

1. If my Mary Browne is possibly the unnamed child b.1888? to Richard Browne & Mary Wright, then at sometime, she would have to be given her name, and that would have to be recorded somewhere.

2. If the other siblings, BDM's are recorded, why not this unnamed child? Any suggestions as how to follow this up.

Many thanks,

Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,

There's actually quite a lot of reasons for flaws in the NSW BDM indexes.     But it is important to remember that the names/ages of all the older siblings are expected to be found on their younger siblings NSW birth certs, INCLUDING on official transcriptions.   

The indexes that you find online, are actually based on volunteers transcribing the old registers.  These volunteers were doing that in the 1930s, so were already dealing with practical issues surrounding deteriorating paper, bleeding ink, smudges, torn pages, missing pages etc etc etc.  PLUS of course, the usual reminder that every time someone transcribes handwritten records, there's every possibility that there will be a typo in their transcribed work.     

The system re civil birth registrations dates from 1856.  In the rural areas, in the 1880s and 1890s the informant (usually father or mother, but others could do this) had a limited timeframe to report the birth to a deputy registrar (a part time position, often part of a sherriff's duties or other court house official) Each quarter that Deputy was meant to handwrite (pre typewriters) their returns (births, deaths, marriages) and forward that by ordinary mail to the Registrar General in Sydney.   The Registrar General of course was responsible for much more than just BDMs.   

If a rural area had not had any BDMs registered, there was NO provision for a "Nil return" to be forwarded.   So if HQ did not get a form from a Dep. Registrar then no one in Sydney thought to follow this up.   They still provided the meagre funds for the part time position regardless.

On the other hand, the diligent Dep Registrar in a rural district had NO way of knowing if his ordinary mail to Sydney BDM's HQ had actually been received there.   And even if it had,  IF it was all fine, legible, not water damaged etc etc etc.

So, a baby who was not yet named, needed to be registered regardless.  Often it is considered to be indicating that one of the parents was working away, and had not yet been consulted, or if the informant was NOT yet aware of the name .....  Sometimes the informant was the midwife, other times it was one of the older siblings, or one of the locals all trying to make sure that the baby's parents would not be penalised for not getting their baby registered. 

The family search website seems to have some volunteers working on various NSW parish registers covering the second half of the 19th century.   So it may well pay you to regularly check there to see if you can find Richard and Mary Uriah BROWN/e and their children's possible baptisms. 

May I stress that I am happy to search through my own NSW records collections for each of the people named on the 1909 marriage at Warren.  And on the other hand, I do understand if you prefer not to type up the details.

Cheers,  JM

 
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Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 14 November 13 11:44 GMT (UK) »
Once again, a big thank you to all,  for all the information you have posted.

I still have 2 queries though.

1. If my Mary Browne is possibly the unnamed child b.1888? to Richard Browne & Mary Wright, then at sometime, she would have to be given her name, and that would have to be recorded somewhere.

2. If the other siblings, BDM's are recorded, why not this unnamed child? Any suggestions as how to follow this up.

Many thanks,



Jeanette.

As to your questions.
1. Why did it have to be recorded somewhere, If it were and they were religious believers then they more than likely had the child baptised and it was named on that. If not then it's not recorded except what she calls herself at marriage. There is no legal requirement to have any fixed first/christian name.
2. Sometimes children are named for a deceased relative IE(grandmother) or someone, should they not be deceased, I remember my mother saying about an "Old Wives Tale" and she was full of them. That nameing a child premature to the death of their sponsor brought back luck and caused the death of that person. ::) ??? Maybe they were waiting on the demise of someone close before a christening?

If you go to NSW BDM. http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html Go to Births and deaths put Brown in as surname and unnamed in a first name and the years between 1800 -1900 you will find 61 little Brown's without a name on the records :o

Cheers Neil ;)

Wegh Argh Snap or something JM ;D
Grewl,Nickerseens,flombastion,Everheads

Offline Baxterjm55

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 14 November 13 12:58 GMT (UK) »
This is the marriage certificate for Thomas Ingram & Mary Louise Browne, you requested.

Thank you,

Jeanette

Date and place of marriage   8th March 1909
                                         Warren (St John’s Church)

Bridegroom's                         
full name,                            Thomas Ingram
occupation,                          Labourer
place of residence,                Ringarah
conjugal status,                   Bachelor
place and date of birth,         Moree NSW
age,                                    33 Years
father's name and                 John Ingram
mother's maiden name          Kate Buckley

Bride's full name,                   Mary Louise Browne
occupation,                           Home Duties
place of residence,                 Ringarah
conjugal status,                     Spinster
place and date of birth,           Peak Hill NSW
age,                                      22 Years
father's name                         Richard Browne
mother's maiden name            Mary Uriah Wright

Married
In the
according to :                         Church of England

And of course
 
Minister's name (Celebrant)       J.A. Poole
and
the names of the witnesses       C.A. Roberts & I. Poole


Edited to fix error in Mary's middle name

.

Offline majm

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 14 November 13 23:20 GMT (UK) »
Sharing some thoughts, from the info on the mc.

 :) Was Ringarah a sheep run on a Crown Lease etc…. or is it a general locality (checked, not found at google maps, but can find it mentioned at TROVE eg SMH 19 April 1928, Ringarah Station, at Quambone,  manager aged 33 years has died;  Orange Leader 6 Sept 1916, 9000 sheep from Ringarah moved 80 miles (instead of only a few miles)  for shearing at Buttabone shed,  due to Warren River flooding; and Freeman’s Journal 29 Sept 1906, “Ringarah, belonging to Hills Bros., Sydney, )
 :) The bride may have been living in the main homestead at Ringarah, perhaps with her parents as part of the station’s employees as her occupation is “home duties” 
 :) I Poole likely to be related to the Rev.
 :) The groom likely to be an employee at Ringarah
 :) Where would there be extant records about Ringarah from about 100 years ago. (Jeanette, perhaps Tom Mix would be able to advise on this)

Sands 1909 Country Alphabetical  Directory (of NSW):

BROWNE
H.E. & Co, store at Moss Vale
Andrew S, JP, Kurri
Claude S, physician, Tumut
FA, Auctioneer, Agent, Germanton
J.W. newspaper prop, Tumbarumba
Mrs M, dressmaker, Casino
Thos., mon. mason, Singleton and West Maitland
W L, photographer, Dubbo
W, president, Burrangong Shire Council, Young.

BROWN
R, JOURNALIST, Lismore
RP, Clerk of Petty Sessions and Registrar BMD, Carcoar   ;D  ;D  (JM notes, likely he sent his returns in !)
Rev Canon R Barry,  C of E, Wellington
RE, dentist, Canbelego
RJ, bookbinder, Goulburn

POOLE
Rev John A (C of E) Warren

ROBERTS

Many listed, but NONE at Warren, and NONE as CA Roberts.


Sands 1909 Pastoral Directory

COONAMBLE PASTURES PROTECTION BOARD  (included Warren, but  do I have ‘right’ PP district)
BROWNE
JA, at Wycombe, Coonamble 18 Horses, 32 Cattle, 2450 sheep
Wallace, at Gilgooma, Coonamble  9 horses, 12 cattle, 968 sheet
JT, at Whittonbri, Coonamble   4 horses, 10 Cattle, 1876 sheep

BUT no sighting of a property or a locality “Ringarah” in that PP district   (I also looked at earlier Sands Pastoral Directories, alas, nothing)  May I suggest you consult with Tom Mix re any offline resources or contacts in any of the many Central West NSW family history/historical societies/groups.   Often these groups exchange their inhouse papers with each other for the benefit of their members. 

Here’s the link to the 1906 mention
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/108027786
“Butterbone, Grahway Willie and Ringarah, belonging to Hill Bros, Sydney, with eleven artesian bores on their runs….  “

The NSW SRO has many indexes re Land, and perhaps you may find BROWNE or Ringarah mentioned in these indexes
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-land-records


Cheers,  JM
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Offline muss

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 14 November 13 23:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi
  I would be interested in the child born 1888 to Richard and Mary  named Emily L ( she may have been known as Mary)

Muss

Offline muss

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Re: Searching Mary Louise Browne - Married in Warren NSW 1909
« Reply #35 on: Friday 15 November 13 03:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi 
Was Mary also known as Dot ?  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/132630705?searchTerm=Burchett mary dubbo&searchLimits=

Muss