Author Topic: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)  (Read 4297 times)

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #18 on: Friday 13 December 13 00:43 GMT (UK) »
If the children were all born in Scotland, perhaps John Wynne had either just gone back to Scotland to live, or went to visit and died up there.  Or even started a new family up there.  There are 4 deaths of John Wynne on Scotlandspeople between 1901 and 1911 but none of them are anywhere near the correct age.

Lizzie

Offline MJW

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Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #19 on: Friday 13 December 13 20:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for replies.

Colin, I think bigamy is highly unlikely in this situation but I'll look into it.  As mentioned earlier, I have the correct John Wynne with his wife Mary Ellen in 1901 (and earlier) census in Blackburn - this is the last recorded event we've found for this John Wynne.
 
I haven't found the Darwen Wynne family in 1901 but I suspect they were in Scotland as all their children shown on 1911 census were born in Scotland.

Lizzie, not sure I fully understand your point.  We know that the John Wynne (with Scottish family) died in Darwen in 1910.  It is John Wynne (husband of Mary Ellen) found in 1901 in Blackburn and his family on the strange 1911 census entry that we're trying to find. 

Malcolm
Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

Offline JenB

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Re: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #20 on: Friday 13 December 13 20:57 GMT (UK) »
I haven't found the Darwen Wynne family in 1901 but I suspect they were in Scotland as all their children shown on 1911 census were born in Scotland.

They are indeed all in Kircudbrightshire in 1901. John is a gardener aged 39, born in England.
Wife Annie aged 38, children Christina 13,  Thomas 11 and Kate 3.

In 1891 they are in Dumbartonshire, John aged 29 a gardener.
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Offline heywood

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Re: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #21 on: Friday 13 December 13 22:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
It is odd - maybe they separated but Mary Ellen didn't want to admit it.
Do you have a grave for Mary Ellen?

Heywood
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Offline MJW

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Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #22 on: Friday 13 December 13 22:59 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for latest replies.

JenB, this fits the names on the Darwen 1911 census and I think helps confirm that this is not the Blackburn-based John Wynne (wife Mary Ellen) that I'm looking for.

Heywood, a separation is something I have considered and might be a possibility.  As I previously mentioned .....
The only other suggestions I can think of are:-
- John and his wife were not living together, and Mary Ellen (after the initial mistakes in entering) decided she wanted him removed and/or actually thought he might be deceased
- John wanted to disappear for some reason and not be on the census (but this botched entry almost draws more attention)


No known grave for Mary Ellen. She died 16 Sept 1927 at Moss Street Blackburn (where she was in 1911), aged 68. Her Death Certificate gives her occupation is "Cotton Weaver, Wife (NB not widow) of John Wynne a Cotton Weaver".
 
Thanks ...Malcolm
Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

Offline LizzieW

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Re: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 14 December 13 00:04 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Lizzie, not sure I fully understand your point.  We know that the John Wynne (with Scottish family) died in Darwen in 1910.  It is John Wynne (husband of Mary Ellen) found in 1901 in Blackburn and his family on the strange 1911 census entry that we're trying to find. 

Sorry, having a senior moment.  I looked at the wrong 1911 census entry. :-[

Offline suegill

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Re: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 14 December 13 01:37 GMT (UK) »
Maybe John Wynne was in prison, or some type of institution, as such, he would still be alive but no longer head of the family.

He could have died outside the local area.  (It took me ages to find my GGrandfather, he was killed in an accident when he was 200 miles from home, the dead was registered in that area.)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Alker - Aspull, Hindley
Marsh - Atherton
Blain - Atherton
Gill - Atherton
Hogg - Loscoe, Crich
Harrison - Heanor, Ruddington
Earnshaw - Heanor
Cope - Heanor, Loscoe, Mapperley
Daykin - Heanor, Loscoe, Mapperley

Offline MJW

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Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #25 on: Monday 16 December 13 14:08 GMT (UK) »
Maybe John Wynne was in prison, or some type of institution, as such, he would still be alive but no longer head of the family.

He could have died outside the local area.  (It took me ages to find my GGrandfather, he was killed in an accident when he was 200 miles from home, the dead was registered in that area.)

That's possible. I think we'll need to widen the search and check all possible John Wynne deaths (and all spelling variations) in all areas.  A long shot (because I don't think he owned property), but might be worth looking for his last known address on electoral rolls.  Also, newspaper archives.

Thanks everyone for your interest and help.
  Malcolm   
Wood(s) Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors & Sawley (orig. W.Yorkshire 1841)
Thornley, Heyes Lancashire/Clayton-le-Moors
Emmett Lancashire/Chorley, Blackburn
Nightingale, Livesey, Warburton, Gorton Lancashire/Blackburn, Darwen
Kilshaw - Lancaster
Mahoney Oswaldtwistle, Ireland
Brennan E.Lancs., Tipperary

Census information is Crown Copyright, National Archives for academic and non-commercial research purposes only

Offline josey

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Re: Strange 1911 Census entry was he there or deceased? (Not a look-up request)
« Reply #26 on: Monday 16 December 13 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Maybe John Wynne was in prison, or some type of institution
In which case he might be entered on the form by just his initials, making it very difficult to identify anyone accurately.

Seeking: baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 said to be nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON