Gardiners/Gardners in Mitcham surrey

[Priam_99]

My great uncle Noah Gardiner/Gardner was born in a tent on mitcham common in 1894 and then the whole family were registered in 'gypsies tents' in Chelsham in the 1901 census. His sister was then in the same year born in a house in Croydon.
I am trying to establish if they were actually gypsies/travellers and from one of the big families or just poor and forced into tents.
Any help would be great
Thanks

[tiggi]

Hi

Noah was likely named after his Uncle Noah - brother of his father George


Noah father was
George Gardner b 1862 Croydon Old Town, Surrey, England
Noah Mother was
Louisa Hunt b 1865 Stanmore, Middlesex, England - parents Wm Hunt b 1835 & Eliza Smith b 1836

Noah was christened 17th Feb 1895 Croydon

birth registry Noah Gardiner 1895 Jan/Feb/Mar Croydon Surrey 2a 229


***********

George -mother was Mary Ann Warne b 1827 -1831 Croydon

1893  22nd May St Peter & St Paul Mitcham
 Mary Ann Gardner  married William Lane both widowers at this time living in Fieldgate Rd
Fathers given as James Lane/ Traveller - Samuel Warne Labour - witnesses Alfred & Ellen Pratt


They were together as couple in 1891 before they married- living in Mitcham Surrey next door to George & Louisa Gardner & also a few doors away was Betsy /Lizzie Gardner  b 1855 wife of Henry Penfold- children of Mary Ann



1871 Carshalton Surrey Williams St  finds Mary Ann b 1827 Seal Kent widowed
with children
Noah b 1851 Kent
Thos b 1853 Kent
E b 1857 Essex - daughter
William b 1860 Essex
Geo b 1862 Croydon Surrey..........................Father of Noah b 1895
L b 1864 Carshalton Surrey -daughter
Jane b 1866 Carshalton Surrey
Ada b 1870 Carshalton Surrey

1861 Croydon Christchurch Albion St could be family under Gosden *
John b 1815 Sussex nothing given for his line of work
Mary b 1829 Kent
Mary b 1847 Lingfield
Noah b 1851 Lingfield
Thomas b 1854 Kent
Elizabeth b 1856 Colchester
William b 1859 Croydon
George b 1860 Croydon Surrey

1872 25th Nov Elizabeth Gardner married Henry Penfold both living at Parsons Rd
 fathers  Robert Penfold & John Gardner labours - witnesses George & Sarah Russell
Elizabeth father john is not listed as deceased which seems strange if in 1871 Mary Ann is saying a widow ?

:
George sister
Lemintina Gardner b 1865 Carshalton partnered Josiah Smith b 1864 Streatham  London
Mary Ann Warne/Gardner/Lane living with them in 1911 as widower 16 Seaton Road, Mitcham, Surrey

So regards family

John b 1815 partnered/married Mary Ann Warne b 1827
Son George b 1862 Croydon married Louisa Hunt b 1865
Son Noah b 1895 Croydon

Sorry but I cannot find anything regards a marriage or death for John nor anything before 1861 when he lists in Croydon with family so would not like to say if he is from a traveling family or not
maybe someone else might know more. hope this helps you along your search.

[tiggi]

Some records for you- if right person George father John does not give a living like you would expect for a traveller

Here is possible death of John Gardner Epsom Surrey 1870 aged 60

All Surrey, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 Results
Surrey, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912 about George Gardner
Name: George Gardner
Birth Date: 2 Jul 1861
Baptism Date: 20 Jan 1861
Archive Provided Parish: Croydon, St John
Parish as it Appears: Croydon
Father: John Gardner. >> occupation, Ag Lab
Mother: Mary Ann Gardner
Reference Number: 2888/1/17

Birthdate of 2nd January 1861

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name:Louisa Hunt

Record Type:Baptism

Baptism Date:30 Jan 1867

Father's Name:William Hunt <<Tinker

Mother's Name:Eliza Hunt

Parish or Poor Law Union:Great Stanmore St John the Evangelist

Borough:Harrow

Register Type:Parish Registers

Surrey, England, Marriages, 1754-1937


Name:George Gardener

Age:21

Birth Year:abt 1862

Marriage Date:25 Dec 1883

Archive Provided Parish:Mitcham, St Peter and St Paul

Parish as it Appears:Mitcham

Spouse:Louisa Hunt

Spouse Age:19

Father:John Gardener

Spouse Father:William Hunt

Reference Number:P40/1/21

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921




Name:William Hunt

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1839

Age:28

Spouse Name:Elizabeth Smith

Spouse Age:28

Record Type:Marriage

Event Date:24 Feb 1867

Parish:Shoreditch St Leonard

Borough:Hackney

Father Name:William Hunt

Spouse Father Name:Joseph Smith

Register Type:Parish Register

[cathayb]

great great grandmother was born Sabina Worsley 5/4/1842 in Ewhurst Sussex (not to confused with Ewhurst Kent). She was daughter of James Worsley and Elizabeth Gardiner, (Gardener, Gardner) . Elizabeth was born 8/10/1818 Ewhurst and baptised 18/10/1818. She was daughter of Shadrach Gardiner who was baptised 9/7/1775 in Sedlescombe Sussex. Shadrach was an agricultural labourer and can be found on 1841 and 1851 censuses. He died in 1854. He married Maria Saxby in 1798 in Westfield Sussex. Shadrach was son of Daniel & Love Gardner. Daniel was baptised 10/7/1748 in Tenterden KENT. His father James was described as a traveller on the baptism. Daniel married Love Furnifer (could there be other spellings?) 6/3/1769 in Tenterden Kent. Daniel was buried in Sedlescombe in 1791 and Love was buried there in 1828. So here is the double dilemma – I can find no other reference to James Gardner (Daniel’s father) and where did Love appear from? I can find no trace of her before her marriage. Thank you for looking.....

[Mitche11]

I'm trying to track my mother in law's great grandmother Mary Ann Gardner born abt. 1860 and her family.

Mary Ann Gardner married Andrew Lowder 25th July 1885 in Dartford, Kent, on the marriage banns it has her father as William Henry Gardner.  Andrew and Mary Ann had a son Walter Louder born 5th March 1904 at 36 Dryden Road, Croydon, Surrey but on Walter's birth certificate it has father: Andrew Louder, mother: Mary Ann Louder formally Ayres, rank or profession of father: Hawker.

I'm sure Mary Ann on the marriage and the birth certificate of Walter is the same person but I cannot find anything to link her name changes from Gardner to Ayres or vice versa, I know some travellers did just change their names as did Andrew Lowder his birth name was Andrew Stacey but his parents and siblings all changed their names from Stacey to Lowder. Could this be the same for Mary Ann Gardner and her family?