1891 census lookup please llansantfraid

[canniffe]

I would be very grateful for a lookup for Dianah/Dinah Davies born abt. 1885 at Bron Y Ffriaeth, Llansantfraid, Glan Conwy. Her father was David Davies, farmer.
Thank you

[D ap D]

Hi, found the dwelling at:

RG12/4672 Folio:    23  Page:    18

there was a Diana Davies, but she was a servant, born 1875.

[canniffe]

Hello and thanks for the reply.
I am very confused. On the 1881, David Davies ia a widower, born Llandoget aged 50, childrenRobert John William Hugh Josiah, daughters Catherine Catherine Jane Elizabeth Margaret.  Dianah is not yet born. ( Address Bron y feriath farm Llansantfraid.
On the 1901, David, 68 is still there with Elizabeth 26, Dianah(Dinah) 16, David 13, Owen and Arthur. They all put Llansantfraid as birthplace.  Also on the 1901 is "teamster on farm" John Jones 26.  On the 1908 marriage cert of Dianah and Richard Jones, she is 23 and he is 34.  Family story has it that they were from same village.  Also as witnesses to marriage were John Owen Jones and Sarah Jones
Thank you for your help.
Elaine

[D ap D]

Hi Elaine, sent the image offline, but that is definitely the same dwelling:
David Davies, head, wid, 56, farmer, DEN Llansanffraid
Joseph, son, s, 21, farmers son, , DEN, Eglwysfach
Manna E., dau, s, 17, DEN, Eglwysfach
Margaret E., dau, s, 14,  DEN, Eglwysfach
Emma, dau, s, 8, Scholar, DEN, Eglwysfach
Diana, serv, s, 16, farm domestic, DEN Llansanffraid
D., son, , 4, DEN Llansanffraid
Owen, son, , 2,DEN Llansanffraid

Although Llanddoget and Llansanffraid aren't far apart, they are most certainly not connected, and I'm pretty sure they don't border each other.

Dianas age in 91 doesn't tie up with 1901 not 1881, but Diana is not a common name in the area (I've transcribed 1891 and 1871 census for Llanrwst, so I know), and I dare say the elder children from 81 have since left home. Although the names don't match up 100%, with 81 and 1901, I'd say this is definitely the right family. Manna E. from 91 is probably Elizabeth in 1901.

I put in a search for Diana Davies, born 1883-1887 in Denbighshire, but the resonse was zero.

A search for Dian* Davies, b 1880-1890 for all of Wales gave 10 responses, but all down south.

I would hazard a guess and say that Diana in 1891 was simply incorrectly emunerated. She should have been 6, not (that would fit in with the ages of the other children. Why else would someone aged 16 be placed between an 8 and a 4 year old? Why else would a servant be placed in the middle of the heads own children?

I'll have a look for David in 71, see what I can find.

D

[D ap D]

Well this is the family in 81:
Dwelling, Bronferiaeth, Llansantffraid Glan Conway,

David Davies abt 1831  Llanddoget, Head, widow
Catherin Davies abt 1859  Eglwysfach, Dau
Robert Davies abt 1861  Llanddoget, Son
Catherin Davies abt 1863  Llanddoget, Dau 
John Davies abt 1866  Llanddoget, Son
William Davies abt 1868  Llanddoget, Son
Hugh Davies abt 1869  Llanddoget, Son 
Josiah Davies abt 1871  Llanddoget, son
Jane Davies abt 1873  Llanddoget, , Daughter   
Elisabeth Davies abt 1876  Llanddoget, Daughter
Margaret Davies abt 1877  Llanddoget, Daughter 
William Hughes abt 1821  Llanddoget, Visitor 

So David was widowed in 81 and still widowed in 91, but having produced more children. Either they were extra marital (if so, why were they living with him? But not unusual for Llansanffraid.) or he wore his wives out. I think with 2 daughters both named Cathrin, 4 years apart, he was married several times.

N.B. I also have a Davies branch in Llansanffraid, with several extra marital children, also married several times. Not all children were from the husbands, but no one really seemed to mind.

Query: who was William Hughes from Llanddoget? deceased wifes brother? mums brother?

[canniffe]

Hi there Dewi,
I received the copy, Thank you.  I have looked at the 1881 and 1901 and you are right-- She was certainly 6 in 1891.  My husband can remember his Nain-Diana-and she would have been most indignant to be called a servant.  What a huge family!  I think I will give up on the Joneses because Richard and Jack are just too common. Mind you, I noticed an Owen Jones next door to David Davies.  If you ever see a Sarah Jones and a John Owen Jones on the same sheet then I think they must be mine as they were the witnesses at the wedding.  Many thanks for all this.
Elaine

[D ap D]

Don't be misled by the somewhat derogatory term "servant". It could be anything from cleaning lady to dairy maid to housekeeper or butler.

Two of my grandparents were "in service" when they were younger, my grandfather was a chauffeur and my grandmother a housekeeper.

[delhome]

Hi sorry to bother you. Over the past few days my sister and I have been trying to look up our family tree. As kids we were told that our great grandparents were buried in Glan Conway. The grave we were shown, says:-

Emma Davies Married to David Davies, Bron Feriaith, died 12th June 1890
Catherine Elizabeth married to Owen Davies, Bron Pistyll, died 10th May 1965
Owen Davies died 24th January 1972.

My late grandmother (daughter of Catherine and Owen) was born Lizzie Catherine born 11th October 1916, and used to live in Bron Pistyll.
My late mam Lynda Kathleen Jones born 2nd July 1944 was born in Bron Pistyll.
After reading your thread I am  confused as to who is who!!!
Any help would be appreciated

thanks

[Sian woodcock]

My great grandfather was Josiah Davies ... Bronferiaeth. He and his family eventually settled in South Wales. He was living in Nelson Glamorgan when he died.