Author Topic: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather  (Read 8656 times)

Offline Vivienne Luke

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John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« on: Tuesday 03 December 13 09:45 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I am looking for help to try and identify the real identity of my
great grandfather who called himself John KEMPTHORNE. He appears for
the first time in the 1881 census, living in Cornwall at Stoketon
Farm, St Stephens as an unmarried farm servant aged 38, birthplace
Camborne. In 1891 he is married to my great grandmother, Anne BICKLE
(nee ELLACOTT) and my grandfather, William, and is Licensed Victualler
of the Notter Bridge Sportsman's Arms, which was previously owned by
Anne and her first husband. John claimed to be 50 and born in Newlyn
East. In 1901, he has moved with his family to Saltash, claiming to be
from East Newlyn, likewise in 1911. He died in 1925 in the workhouse
in Saltash, despite his son and his family living close by and being
potentially able to support him. His marriage certificate does not
name his father and gives nothing helpful to identify him.
Prior to 1881, I can find no record of his existence. I have checked
every source I can think of and followed every John Kempthorne and
Thomas Kempthorne who could be him (his death certificate named him as
John Thomas Kempthorne) with no success. I can find no link for him
with Newlyn East or anywhere else. For some time I followed links only
to find I was wrong.
Is there any answer to this conundrum or am I left with an ancestor
who was trying to hide a past and who covered his traces very well.
There are no family stories to explain the mystery. (I was born in
Cornwall myself, but live in Tasmania now.)

Offline miriamkinga

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 03 December 13 11:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Vivienne and welcome to Rootschat.

Have you discounted the 1842 baptism in Sithney to James & Anne on the Cornwall OPC site?

http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=baptisms&id=3551605

Do the witnesses at the wedding provide any clues? John Clough Kinsman & Elizabeth Peard?
GOATER, LAN, ALL
BOURKE, MAYO/ LAN
LONERGAN, TIP
McGREAL, MAYO
FLAHERTY, GALWAY/ ALL
HOUGH, LAN/ ALL

Offline Vivienne Luke

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 03 December 13 20:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Miriamkinga,
Yes, the John Kempthorne born in Sithney lived his life in Devon. I did at first think this was mine, until I found his marriage and post 1881 census records. I can't find any link with the witnesses either. All my mother's memories were of branches of her mother's family. Thanks for the suggestion though, it was nice to get a reply! I need a magic wand on this one  :-\

Offline prodda

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 04 December 13 00:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Vivienne

Have you ruled out Thomas KEMPTHORNE baptised Newlyn East on 12 Jul 1840 to Mark & Betsey?

He appears with his family in the 1841 and 1851 census records in Newlyn East (his father was an agricultural labourer) and in 1861 he was resident in nearby Crantock and gave his occupation as farm servant. I can't yet see any trace of him in the 1871 census though.

Phil


Offline Vivienne Luke

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 04 December 13 10:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Phil,
Yes, I have ruled out Thomas Kempthorne as he migrated to New Zealand - it was another lead with a dead end! Thanks for your reply though.

Offline trish1120

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 04 December 13 12:08 GMT (UK) »
deleted, wrong Family after more research :-[
   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline Vivienne Luke

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 04 December 13 21:29 GMT (UK) »
The longer I work on this search, the more it seems that John Kempthorne is an invented name. Many things point to this - his absence before 1881, no birth/baptism record, no family stories about his background, the fact that his family put him in the workhouse to die while they took care of his wife and other family members until they died, no siblings or other family members known, his marriage as a relatively older man. I can accept this, but just don't know where to start to try and find any information about him.

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #7 on: Friday 13 December 13 03:21 GMT (UK) »
I come not to give help, but maybe to give hope!

I'm going to retell a tale I told elsewhere here recently, about how I discovered who my gr-grfather really was. He came from Cornwall and he was born around 1850 ... but you can't have him. ;)

I'd be sure that your fellow's Kempthorne name came from somewhere other than his birth certificate. There are certain common possibilities, of two varieties:

- mother was not married, he was registered under her name
- mother was married, he was registered under her husband's surname
In either case, father was actually a Kempthorne and knowing this, he adopted his surname
- mother (re)married or partnered with someone, he adopted stepfather's surname

- he changed his name as an adult to avoid something: military desertion, debts, wife and kids, ...
(this, I learned from the son of my mum's cousin who knew but had no idea his name was fake, long after I figured out who he really was, was the case for my gr-grfather: abandoned the military in India after 5 years rather than be sent to Afghanistan, which fit precisely between his first identity's wife's death in 1873 and the beginning of the Anglo-Afghan war in 1878.)

People generally did not stray too far from their truth (as my gr-grfather's tale shows), so things like given name, age and reported place of birth are likely to be fairly reliable. Unfortunately, your fellow was a John. Mine had the good grace to have two multisyllabic trendy Victorian names.

Anyhow, herewith my tale (in very abridged form, since it took years to collect all the bits of substantiating evidence, and I've omitted most of it here). And after all this, I still don't know where his fake surname came from!! But I will figure it out or die trying. ;)

I'm going to take a poke at your John, since I've made a bit of a specialty of name-shifters, being a self-taught expert after cutting my teeth on those people! Oh, and my own fun bit is that I finally bit the bullet and went for YDNA testing, and while I didn't expect a match with the rare fake surname, I did expect one with the common as dirt real surname, if my man was really a son of his official father. I got a match alright, a very close one ... with a completely different surname from the same area of Cornwall. And the search resumes ...

But if you have a male-line descendant from your John, you should consider YDNA testing. I was enormously lucky that one person from the well-researched clan in question, with whom my gr-grfather's descendant matches, had done the testing; otherwise I'd be none the wiser. Possibly even a Family Finder test, if you don't have a direct male-line descendant, would produce some ideas.


So ... I discovered, immediately upon first researching him, that my gr-grfather did not exist before his 1883 marriage; he had sprung from nowhere, with two distinctive given names and very unusual surname. I did not know where he was born, but I knew his (approx) year of birth.

Unfortunately for me, we knew that after he married in England 1883, he was in Australia for the 1891 English census, and I could not find him in 1901 for love nor money, to at least find what age and place of birth he gave. He then immigrated here to Canada.

Let's say their names were, for illustration:

My gr-grfather Edward Arthur Moonwalk.
His daughter Alice London Moonwalk.
His father Fiscus Moonwalk.

I got an early clue: when searching for the birth of a daughter of his that we had just learned died in infancy, Alice Moonwalk, I found that she was Alice London Moonwalk -- and I found the marriage of a person a generation before with the identical name, otherwise unique in recorded history. No idea how they were related, but they had to be. And when I searched for someone with the same given names as my gr-grfather born around the same time, I found an Edward Arthur Smith, let's say (the surname was nearly as common!).

Eventually, I found the family that matched all these clues, in the 1861 census (plus certificates): Edward Arthur Smith, with a sister named Alice London Smith and a father named Fiscus Smith. Born in Cornwall. And when I finally found my gr-parents in London in 1901 (his surname bizarrely mistranscribed at two different sites), he gave the same place in Cornwall, for his place of birth. So both he and his sister (that we had never heard of) had adopted the same fake surname, and both had assigned it to their father when they married, while retaining the father's real given name. Oh, the clincher was when I finally found that the sister's real name at birth was actually Alice London Moonwalk Smith. Why Moonwalk -- and especially how she came to have Moonwalk as a middle name -- I have yet to find out.

A big stroke of luck I had, when it comes to people changing names, was that theirs were distinctive and they retained enough of them, and their birth details, to make them identifiable. And while the little info I did have to start with was even less than you have -- his given names and approx date of birth -- finding the sister gave me a triangulation point you don't have.


Like me, you are looking for someone who looks like your person. And then you see whether that person can't be accounted for after a certain point, the point where that person hypothetically became your person. And sadly, all the work you have done in that process has served only to eliminate the possibles ... but where there's life ... !
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Offline miriamkinga

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Re: John Kempthorne - lost grandfather
« Reply #8 on: Friday 13 December 13 08:57 GMT (UK) »
Janey that's so interesting and clever  ;D

Vivienne I wouldn't assume that his family "put him in the workhouse to die" while caring for other family members. The workhouse was also used as a hospital ansd perhaps they were unable to care for him at home.

Good luck with your search  :)
GOATER, LAN, ALL
BOURKE, MAYO/ LAN
LONERGAN, TIP
McGREAL, MAYO
FLAHERTY, GALWAY/ ALL
HOUGH, LAN/ ALL