Help in understanding records - Thomas BARTLEY b1835

[Alirat153]

Hi all - although I have been muddling along with my family history for 30 years I only got the 'genealogy' bug recently so am a newby with a lot of info. I now want records to back up my finds! I have joined Ancestry and have found  a wealth of info. All well and good on the easy ones. I have a tricky relative who allegedly was a sea captain, but the records are very sketchy and although I have him being born in 1835 in Liverpool there is another Thomas Bartley b 1849 who keeps popping up - I don't think they are the same person but can't be sure.  I cannot find birth records for my Thomas Bartley and no death, but I know the marriage record is correct. He married Esther Cherry Styles in 1858 and the record number is Liverpool 8b 399.  Now it is this reference number that I do not understand the significance of. Is this a number that I can use to get a copy of the marriage certificate by any chance?  That would be helpful as I could then verify his birth date.  I am pretty sure his father was called Thomas also b 5 August 1810 in Liverpool, mother Margaret (nee) Plumb b 1814 also Liverpool.

I would like to find out about this man as there are family stories about him and it would be good to see if any are true!

[avm228]

Hi

Yes, the reference number enables you to order the certificate from the GRO online at www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates for £9.25.

However the even better news is that with your Ancestry subscription you can view the marriage register online immediately!  Enter Esther Cherry Styles and the entry in the "Liverpool, England, Marriages & Banns" database should come high in your search results.

Hope that helps

[avm228]

The post-marriage censuses show your Thomas as:

1861: Not with Esther - perhaps at sea? Esther is in her mother's household: 59 Stanley St, Liverpool.
1871: 35, sailor, b Liverpool
1881: Dead - going by the fact that Esther is enumerated as a widow 1881-1901 (she dies 1905).

[Alirat153]

Thanks for that!

[avm228]

You're welcome.

I suggest you also have a look on Ancestry at the Masters' & Mates' certificates. Thomas Bartley was awarded his Second Mate certificate in 1864 and his First Mate certificate in 1866.  Both documents show (2nd page in each case) that he was born 1835 Liverpool.

[Alirat153]

Where would I find the Masters and Mates certificates?  I have looked at catalogue names and can't find it at all. You wouldn't know if there are any deaths at sea registers would you?  And thanks again for your help. The tools seem to be there, its just finding how to use them.

Edit : found it!

[BonnieDownUnder]

Hello,

Thomas Bartley born 1835 Liverpool comes up 11 (on certificate shows 6th registered 7th) Oct 1859 with 2nd class Mates certificate 21.113 …. possibility two Thomas Bartley's?

On Ancestry, in SEARCH enter Thomas Bartley, birth year 1835, Liverpool, and the 3 entries will come up.

[Alirat153]

Yes I believe there are definitely 2 Thomas Bartleys, mine b 1835 and the other b 1849. One of them (or yet another) seemed to be in jail rather a lot, so I will cross reference the jail terms with the babies birth dates (- 9 month) and see if I can nail it down. Oddly enough another Thomas Bartley was in prison before either of the above was born.  Starting to get the hang of it but Ancestry searches seem a bit odd at times, not returning anything, then coming back with stuff at others.

Edit:  There appear to be 2 brothers in the same family called Thomas!  The older b1835 was brought up by grandparents and the younger b1849 lived with the parents. Now to find who was the crim...

[avm228]

Thomas Bartley born 1835 Liverpool comes up 11 (on certificate shows 6th registered 7th) Oct 1859 with 2nd class Mates certificate 21.113 …. possibility two Thomas Bartley's?

Yes, good point. So we've got:

1859 2nd mate: Thomas Bartley b 1835 Liverpool, address 30 Aughton St, Everton
1864 2nd mate: Thomas Bartley b 1835 Liverpool, address 59 Stanley St Liverpool
1866 1st mate: Thomas Bartley b 1835 Liverpool, address 59 Stanley St Liverpool

So the latter two must be the same person.