Author Topic: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband  (Read 7318 times)

Offline Ayashi

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #9 on: Monday 13 January 14 09:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi, yes, but there is another one for Mary Ann R HAMLEY in Launceston 3 qr 1870. Given that the first child was called Elizabeth Jane Uglow HAMLEY there's a certain pattern to that one. I don't know which one is hers and I haven't bought any certs to find out. On census, Mary Ann's place of birth changes between Tremaine and Launceston, unhelpfully. Isn't Bodmin a fair way away from Treneglos though, in term of reg district?

Offline osprey

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #10 on: Monday 13 January 14 10:33 GMT (UK) »
the Mary Ann Robins registered Bodmin died in the same quarter as her birth was registered. And your girl's birth would have registered at Launceston.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline MargP

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #11 on: Monday 13 January 14 10:45 GMT (UK) »
I am not sure if this one is relevant

 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N15N-25G

Margp
Family History is a Pandora's box if you don't like what you see find a new hobby,only concentrate on the proven facts and not the facts you think you know.
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Stanton Walsall.
Tudor. Radnorshire
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Offline Ayashi

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #12 on: Monday 13 January 14 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Osprey, I don't know why it never occurred to me to try to kill one off. That christening also appears to be for an illegitimate child, which she would have been- although the mother's name is Elizabeth, aside from one census where oddly she has the middle initial "A", there's no evidence otherwise that she ever had a middle name, and one would have thought if he planned on marrying her and the child had his surname, William's name would be on it. So the balance of probability is that Mary Ann was another little whoops child that was later legitimised. That doesn't surprise me. Seems to run in the family- Elizabeth's eldest illegitimate Elizabeth Jane also had two illegitimate children and didn't marry the father of either!


Offline LizzieL

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #13 on: Monday 13 January 14 14:25 GMT (UK) »
The Mary Ann Robbins born in Bodmin was born to a lady with maiden name Robbins not married surname, so must surely be discounted. The Mary Ann R (probably Robbins) Hamley registered Launceston is the most likely. She married Richard Edwards as Robbins not Hamley.
The census only gives a 10 yearly snapshot, so in 1871, do we have Elizabeth and her two daughters living with her brother or do we have Elizabeth coming on a short visit to her widowed mother who is also in the household. Perhaps the mother was ill and Elizabeth was needed to look after her. Elizabeth and William Robbins must have got together after 1871, because two more children are produced by 1881. But it does look as if the marriage did break down and they separated. In 1881, Elizabeth describes herself as a farmer's wife, perhaps at this time she felt there might be a reconciliation, but by 1891, the separation was complete so she doesn't claim a relationship with the estranged husband by still calling herself a farmer's wife.
The William that you have found certainly looks on the balance of probabilities to be the right one, so many things match.
The 1911 census anomalies are a bit odd, I have found couples lying about length of time married if first child born out of wedlock, or there was no actual marriage, but Elizabeth has not made it early enough to "legitimise" the first daughter. May be just a genuine error. Lovely handwriting but weak on mathematics.
As to the "widower" on William's form, it does look like different handwriting, William's "W"s are a bit more flowery not just for his own name but where he has written work and worker. Also he seems to capitalise every word (see the occupations for the members of the household), the W in widower is lower case. It looks like the enumerator just thought he had it wrong and "corrected" it.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline MargP

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #14 on: Monday 13 January 14 15:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Is William signature on the marriage certificate, that you could compare, with the signature on the 1911 census, that's if it is William who filled it out.

Margp
Family History is a Pandora's box if you don't like what you see find a new hobby,only concentrate on the proven facts and not the facts you think you know.
Jenkins, Radnorshire. Herefordshire, Canada
Coley Dudley.
Baston, Cleobury Mortimer.Wolverhampton
Parker Stafford.
Hammond/s Wolverhampton.Shropshire
Duckworth Cheshire.
Proud Walsall.Proud Cape South Africa
Horton Darlaston.
Stanton Walsall.
Tudor. Radnorshire
Pittaway. Droitwich

Offline Ayashi

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #15 on: Monday 13 January 14 15:49 GMT (UK) »
William puts his mark on the marriage cert. The writing on his 1911 does look quite... childish? (I still love the "privet means"...)

I don't know what length of time Elizabeth was at her brothers house or the reason for her being there- Another son takes over the family farm over in Lifton, so slightly odd that Charlotte ended up with this son instead of staying at home unless both she and Elizabeth (and the children) were visiting, but then again Thomas's nephew is specified as visitor and nobody else. Elizabeth is "married" on the 1871 despite having her maiden name so I assume the name was in error. The marriage definitely fits for her, anyway. Evidently she stayed over there long enough to be courted, get pregnant and marry.

I wish I knew who Elizabeth Jane's father was! I've narrowed it down to about four guys!

Offline LizzieL

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #16 on: Monday 13 January 14 15:52 GMT (UK) »
A Margaret Hamley married a Mr Uglow, was she related to Elizabeth?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline Ayashi

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Re: 3xgt grandmother's invisible husband
« Reply #17 on: Monday 13 January 14 16:00 GMT (UK) »
Richard HAMLEY (Elizabeth's brother) married Margaret Ann UGLOW in 1860, the year after Elizabeth Jane's birth. It's long been theorised that Margaret Ann's brothers are the most likely culprits. Nothing provable though.