Help needed to get to the bottom of a family scandal?

[ec]

Hi Judy

I am not an expert.  I looked at the page on ancestry and in the transcription William is shown as Hore - thats is what it looked like to me as well.  In any case what I was trying to say is that William Ware and William Hore are both common names so could be any one of a number of people.....

In any case we know they are not the same person because William Ware died on the Titanic.

Looking at the Ellis Island site, your Frederick (who is, I believe Frederick Carkeek Pengilly not Frederick Cardell Pengilly) travelled with a William John Carkeek, age 24 who had originated in England but had previously been resident in Bingham Utah and was returning.

I think you have to either ignore the Titanic information or ask the contributor for his sources - it seems to me fairly clear he has muddled the two families I posted earlier as shown in the 1901 census

[Chattykathy]

Judy,

I assume you went to Arizona Vital records website or to Gila County website to look for what on-line searchable info they might have for marriage/divorce?   You may not find a lot free on line but would have to pay and request a search/cert.

This is slow and tedious and absolutely no fun ---  but you could google for an obituary  --  I have found several on line for my family ---   Try combinations of places dates names and see what comes up.  If you find an obit it may have a 2nd wife, children and others named.    Downside:  is not alot of on-line obits prior to 10 -20 years ago for non-famous people unless somebody had created a special archive.

I think the mining co. in Miami/Globe area is/was Anaconda Copper Mining or Anaconda Metals Mining, may also be a U.S. Minerals, US Bauxite  or something like that  (used to live in AZ so really grabbing at past memories, here)   --   copper/tin/bauxite operations are all centered in that area.  Anaconda was a pretty famous company so you might find quite a bit about their history/personnel.

Think that is about all I have to offer in the way of suggestions.
Good luck!
kathy

[Judy Pengilly]

Hi Karen, EC

Just spoke to Miami and they are very happy to research any details I can give them ie Newspapers etc so I am delighted with that one.

EC, I feel a bit of a clown now because you are absolutely right he's not a cardell (his dad was) he was a carkeek which was is mums Elizabeth Jane maiden name which is why he was travelling with his cousin? I think. The Titanic researcher has really got his wires crossed, how does anybody let him know?

You need the patience of a saint for this stuff

Judy

[Chattykathy]

Judy,  just out of curiosity, went back to look at the 1930 Census page for Frederick in Miami and I'm no expert on handwriting either, but I think that William is HORE.  I blew the image up to 75 and 100%.

I can why your expert thinks the H is a W because alot of the H's have a "swoop" a the top of the H  but I looked down the page to Homer H. Garrett and the H's are exactly the same - rather plain.   IMO.......... just in case it ends up being a meaningful detail later on. 

Also, this didn't come up the first time I searched and I doubt if related but just in case.......

1930 Highland Park, Wayne Co., Michigan

Fred Pengelly 48 marred @ age 23  Immigration Year: 1907
Janitor at Office Building
Myra  - Wife  47 marr. at age 22      Immigration Year: 1910
dau Lillian  24                                             ditto
Son, Percy 23                                             ditto

Everybody born in England

kathy

[Chattykathy]

CORRECTION:

Should have googled first.....

       Inspiration Copper
       Miami Copper

kathy

[Judy Pengilly]

Thanks Kathy for that got some lovely old foto's, looked a bit like the moon.  Silly question, is there a 1940, 50 Census what are the US rules?

The Library in Miami have promissed to check the newspaper database, somebody somewhere must know his final resting place.

Judy

[Chattykathy]

Hi Judy, 

I googled Mining in Miami, AZ just for the fun of it --- Lot's of information and pics  tho not much will be specific to your search for A Singular Person.  It is a bit barren country, however, in person and in color --- it is quite beautiful there but over-mining and lack of early conservation techniques has taken it's toll.

1930 is last US census published.  Freedom of Information Act has restrictions to protect living persons.  I think 2012 is the issuance of 1940.  that's why you'll have to go to appropriate Vital Records department for Death Cert once you determine his place of death or have clues as to possible locations.  Some states will do searches in 5 year increments and issue the cert for all one fee -  but everything varies from state to state. 

So there is the challenge.......

Good Luck!  Hope the Library comes up with some good info!

kathy

[Chattykathy]

Judy,  forgot to add....checked  on IGI  SSDI (Social Security Death Index for US)  --  only 2 deaths for Frederick Pengelly/Pengilly came up --

One was the California one with the 1901 birthdate I gave you previously

The other was in Pennsylvania or Massachusetts but the birth date was 1874.   Didn't take notes since it was a Frederick born 20 years too early.

In case you don't know, IGI is not always to be relied on for total accuracy and like everything else, is incomplete.  There are ALOT of Pengilles in the US spread out all over.  Minnesota has a high concentration --  and ONLY 2 show up in IGI SSDI  ---- illustrates how you have to consider your sources of info carefully and with "flexibile"  thinking! 

bye....
kathy

[grub]

Hi Judy
Not what you are looking for but you can print out the birth certificates for the 3 children.

Take a look at:

http://genealogy.az.gov

Regards
Valerie