Author Topic: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873  (Read 7012 times)

Offline polarbear

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 23 March 21 20:58 GMT (UK) »
I have also been looking again and I'm afraid I haven't found anything new either.

PB
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Offline andrewp91

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 24 March 21 09:19 GMT (UK) »
Not to worry! I highly appericate your efforts in trying to solve this for me. I would love to find him but it seems very challenging on where he went or what happened to him! I really do appericate your efforts!  :)
Sorry Andrew, not made any progress.  Canada has very strict privacy laws which makes things very difficult.  Perhaps someone else will turn up some good info

Take Care
Stay Safe
Sandra :)

I also would like to thank you for your efforts in helping me :) Its not something you have to do but your genriosity in helping others is amazing! So thank you for at least trying! :)
I have also been looking again and I'm afraid I haven't found anything new either.

PB

I hope someone might be able to help me locate him but know that it seems to be a very difficult task. But I do appreciate your help from all that has participated in helping me look for him :)
Kindest Regards
Stay Safe!

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 09 December 21 22:21 GMT (UK) »
Just found a potential lead if anyone is willing to try and help me find out if I am chasing up the wrong tree?

I have just stumbled across the "Canadian WW1 CEF Attestation paper 1914-1918" records on Ancestry, so decided to input the information that I did have for Alfred into it to see if anything showed.

To my surprise, after typing in all information, the top search to come up was someone going by the name George Alfred Smith. I understand that the names are completely different. However, the Birth date matches, place of birth matches, and George has the next of kin as a Bessie Smith.

Unfortunately, there does not seem to be an image attached to the Ancestry record, it just shows grey. Therefore I cannot see if they both share any more information.

Iam stuck on where to go with what I have found as I am not sure how the Canadian Records work. If anyone is able to help me with this and see if it could be my ancestor using a different name or whether I am going up the wrong tree, I would really appericate it!

Kindest Regards
Andrew

Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 09 December 21 22:35 GMT (UK) »
Canadian Attestation Papers - George Alfred Smith 4/3/1873

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=237219

might be slow to load

Digital File :- 72 pages

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9045-S049

Page 21 date of death :- 26 September 1964 - place of death not stated.

Sandra
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Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 09 December 21 22:41 GMT (UK) »


Alberta Death Index - George Alfred Smith
Death Date 8 Sep 1964 - Death Place Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Registration Number:   007-093

Sandra
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Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 09 December 21 22:53 GMT (UK) »


FIND A GRAVE

George Alfred Smith -  8 September 1964

Westlawn Memorial Gardens Edmonton, Edmonton Census Division, Alberta.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/185541084/george-a.-smith

Sandra
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"

Census information is Crown Copyright  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 09 December 21 23:07 GMT (UK) »
The record has finally loaded.

I find this very confusing, He has his next of kin at an address 20 Windmar? Street, Toronto.
He gives his occupation as an Engineer. This is the same as what my Alfred Smith was in the 1911 census in England.

Where it asks if he has ever served in the military force, he puts 2 and half years Imp Yeomanry. My Alfred also was part of the Imperial Yeomanry, however, his time within I am not sure about. I believe he was only in it for 1 and a half years. (Around about)

The description of George is
Height; 5ft 9 and a half.
Girth of Chest; 35 and half inches. Expansion is 3"
Complexion is Light,
Eyes are Brown,
Hair is Dark Brown
Religion; Church of England
Distinctive Marks are [Groosed?] Flags and Female Figure Tattooed on right forearm with "Alfred -R.M. - I LOVE E[S?]" and a sailor on his left forearm. He also has a mole on the left shoulder.

The description of Alfred Graham Temple-Smith in the UK Imperial Yeomanry Records are;
Height; 5ft 10"
Weight; 11lbs
Chest Girth 35 and half inches. Expansion is 37 Inches
Complexion; Ruddy
Eyes; Dark
Hair; [Auburn?]
Relgion; Church of England.
Distinctive marks are; Scar on the left eye.

The common features between the two are, they both share pretty much the same height, Chest, Eye and hair colour with the same religion. They both served in the UK Imperial Yeomanry, and both were Engineers.

The thing that doesn't match is that it states Alfred has a scar on his left eye in the earlier Yeomanry records Would the Canadian record not pick up on that given they noted the mole on his left shoulder?

I am also trying to work out what the Tattoos could mean, although a big clue states "Alfred" why would he have his own name tattooed on him? Maybe this could be a reminder to him of when he was in the Royal Marines in the 1891 census? "Alfred - R.M." I am stuck on the "I love E.[S?]" part? It could be E.G and if this was the case then he could be talking about his mother who was called Ester Griffiths, but it looks like E.S? It could be a faded tattoo and it could have read B.S? If this is the case then I would assume he would be talking about his with Bessie Salisbury?

What is even crazier is that IF this is the same person, then Alfred left England BEFORE his son, Raymond was born as the date that he signed up to it was January 1914. Raymond was born on 14th April 1914.

Is there any way we could find the address that George Gives and try and find who else lives there or where he went after that address, please? I will try and find a George Alfred Smith leaving England in the meantime.
 
Kindest Regards
Andrew

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 09 December 21 23:22 GMT (UK) »
Wow thank you for that bit of information. I have never seen anything like this before!

This person George seems to be pretty set on stating his next of kin is Bessie Smith and is living with him!

I am wondering if this is just a coincidence that someone was born in the same place at the same time as my ancestor and also went to Canada in around 1914.

The thing that makes me think this isn't my relative is the next of kin part where he states his wife Bessie is living with him. I didn't notice any mention of any children, unfortunately. My Bessie smith remained in the UK until her death in 1949.

Maybe it is still her, however just need to see who else was living at the address at the time he gives to see if he is lying or if there is another explanation.

Regards, Andrew


Canadian Attestation Papers - George Alfred Smith 4/3/1873

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=237219

might be slow to load

Digital File :- 72 pages

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9045-S049

Page 21 date of death :- 26 September 1964 - place of death not stated.

Sandra

Offline andrewp91

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Re: Lost Family Relatvie Great Great Grandfather. Alfred Smith b.1873
« Reply #35 on: Friday 10 December 21 09:54 GMT (UK) »
It seems I need to find out who the Bessie Smith was that George Alfred Smith puts as his next of kin.

From what I can gather, he marks her address as 20 Widmer Street, Toronto in 1915 on 13th January 1915 according to the signed Attestation Papers

On 1st June 1915 the address is marked as General Post Office, Folkestone, England.

On 14 December 1915 - 25 April 1916 his discharge papers state her address is Cheriton, Shorncliffe, Kent.

In the record where it talks about his pay, in October 1916 Bessie Smiths address looked to be 8 Richmond Street, Cheriton but it was crossed out and had 20 Widmer Street, Toronto input.

In a later date what I believe to be 29th January 1920, the address given for Bessie Smith is now Lambton Mills, Ontario. This can be found on page number 42 of https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9045-S049

Am I reading this correctly? I’ve racked my head all night trying to understand it.

The reason to why I ask is because to my knowledge, my Bessie Smith remained in England, mainly around the Luton Area before moving up to Derbyshire before the 1939 Electrol Roll where she is Living with a man called Purcell.

Any shed of light will be much appreciated.