Author Topic: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??  (Read 2204 times)

Offline charlatan_s63

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2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« on: Monday 03 February 14 17:05 GMT (UK) »
Hi, sorry this is a bit long but here goes.

I've been tracing my family history for just over a year but its my own surname 'Shaw' which is proving most difficult.  Here's what I know as fact so far.

Grandfather - Jack Shaw [1924 - 1976]
Gt Grandfather - Samuel Shaw, 57 at death in 1949 so born c.1892 but this differs from his age given on his marriage certificate.
2xGt Grandfather - Richard Shaw, occupation miner.

I also found out that Samuel is buried in an unmarked grave in Bolton on Dearne, along with 'Richard Lewis' (father in law) who died in 1944 & 'George Henry Shaw' (Brother) who died in 1947.

So knowing the above I search the census and find a family with:

Richard Shaw [head] b.1862
Emily Taylor Shaw [wife]
Richard Shaw [son]
Sarah Shaw [daughter]
Benjamin Shaw [son]
Samuel Shaw [son] b.1892
George Shaw [son] b.1896

Hurbert Shaw [son]
Emily Shaw [daughter]

My next step was to order the Marriage certificate for Richard & Emily in order to find out Richard's Father name, but when the cert arrived for Richard / Emily dated 1888 it states 'illegitimate' for the grooms father.  Hoping that this wasn't then end of the line, I went further back through the census and found a record in 1871 in Rowley Regis with the following:

Esther Shaw - age 39 & widowed
William shaw - age 18
Sally - age 14
Henry - age 12
Richard - age 10
George - age 6
Leah - age 1

then going back to 1861 I find the following record in Rowley Regis.

Henry Shaw - age 28 [head] - I think Henry may have died around 1865.
Esther - age 29 [Wife]
William - age 8
Sarah (not Sally) - age 4
Henry - age 2

Could this possibly be my Ancestors, and if Henry was Richards father then why put him as Illegitimate on the marriage document.   ??? ???
Shaw, Dyson, McGarrigle, Jackson, Lewis, Jones, Lord, Broadhurst.

Ireland: Looby

Offline avm228

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #1 on: Monday 03 February 14 17:55 GMT (UK) »
The census entries do look a good possibility for a match. Sally was a variant of the name Sarah.

It could be that Richard really was illegitimate (Henry having died or left the family before his conception) or that he mistakenly thought he was (Henry having died so early in his childhood that he never really knew him).

This looks the most likely birth registration for Richard:

Richard Shaw, Mar qtr 1862 Dudley 6c 8. (This birth is also indexed on WestmidlandsBMD under Rowley Regis subdistrict).

Why do you think Henry may have died "around 1865"? Have you traced a possible death for him on FreeBMD and/or www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk?

Added: Ah - I see that there are two Rowley Regis deaths for a Henry Shaw, in 1865 and 1866 respectively - so perhaps that's the source?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline charlatan_s63

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #2 on: Monday 03 February 14 18:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Henry was on the 1861 census but not 1871, where Esther Shaw is listed as widowed.  So with Richard being born c.1862 i searched for deaths of Henry between 1862 / 1871 and found the one you mentioned above.

Shaw, Dyson, McGarrigle, Jackson, Lewis, Jones, Lord, Broadhurst.

Ireland: Looby

Offline trelawn1984

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #3 on: Monday 03 February 14 19:20 GMT (UK) »
If I were you, my next step would be to either order Richard's birth cert or, if possible, look up his baptism record. The birth cert may list Henry as the father and in that case it may be that Richard had no recollection of his dad having been so young when he died. If the cert shows no father at least you will know for sure. It would be worth following up as (unless I am mistaken in reading your details) Leah, born circa 1870 certainly isn't Henry's if he died in 1865/6 but she still apparently has the surname "Shaw".

Amy
Bolger, Saul, Dowd, Ennis, Doyle - Dublin
Shears/Sheers/Schehr - Dublin and Germany


Offline charlatan_s63

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #4 on: Monday 03 February 14 19:55 GMT (UK) »
It's likely that I have henrys death wrong all I know is he was on the 1861 census but then on the following one Esther was listed as widowed.  There are another 2 death entries in 1870 for a Henry Shaw that I can see on freebmd

1. Henry Shaw age 34    Stafford 6b 5, birth c.1836
2. Henry Shaw age 51    Wolstanton 6b   100, birth c.1819

but niether of these match up with the census in 1861 which give his age at 28, so probably born 1833

Shaw, Dyson, McGarrigle, Jackson, Lewis, Jones, Lord, Broadhurst.

Ireland: Looby

Offline trelawn1984

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #5 on: Monday 03 February 14 21:52 GMT (UK) »
I'd go for Richard's birth cert then. See what that throws up.
Amy
Bolger, Saul, Dowd, Ennis, Doyle - Dublin
Shears/Sheers/Schehr - Dublin and Germany

Offline charlatan_s63

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 04 February 14 15:25 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the advice trelawn1984 Ill try and locate the birth for richard Shaw .
Shaw, Dyson, McGarrigle, Jackson, Lewis, Jones, Lord, Broadhurst.

Ireland: Looby

Offline ChrissieL

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 04 February 14 16:05 GMT (UK) »
There is a Henry Shaw married Esther Round
Dudley St Thomas 1852
On the West Midlands BMD site
Chris
Staffordshire: Lawton Probyn Horrobin
Durham: Bamlett Hardman Winship Robinson
Suffolk: Leggett

Offline charlatan_s63

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Re: 2x gt grandfather - Illigitamate or not??
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 04 February 14 17:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for that chrissie, the maiden name might help me.  I'll make a note for when my birth cert arrives  :)

Shaw, Dyson, McGarrigle, Jackson, Lewis, Jones, Lord, Broadhurst.

Ireland: Looby