Author Topic: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie  (Read 19517 times)

Offline Genie24

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 19 February 14 17:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica,
Thanks again for all the help yesterday. I thought you might be interested in an update on what I have been able to find since then.
I looked at the record you found of Isabella McFarlane  and it confirmed that my suspicions were correct and she is indeed the sister of my great, great, grandmother Ellen/Helen/ Dunning/Diinin/Dinnan/Dunion/Dannion/Dunyon.......... She died on 7th November 1899 of Pneumonia. The informant was her son living at 59 Dalrymple Steet which is the street my great, grandmother was born in 1877! It confirms the names of my Great X 4 grandparents Peter and Sarah but of course the name has changed again and is Dannion. It gives Sarah's maiden name as Docherty which I didn't know so progress!!!
In addition to the death of Elizabeth, the last child of Duncan McKenzie, I also found a birth of a Thomas on Familysearch. I subsequently found a death on 26th July 1869 aged 1 1/6 years!!! Actual age 13 months of Hydrocephalus. Ellen's 2nd husband died aged 52 years old on 14 September 1871 at 6:15 a.m. at Old Gravity Dock. Cause of death disease of the heart. I assume he had just turned up for work and dropped dead. Now I need to find a death for her 3rd husband as I feel sure he also died soon after or they divorced as she reverted to the name Eadie. I am feeling such empathy for her! My husband will kill me if he knew how much I am spending on credits etc though !!!
If there is anything I can help you with please don't hesitate to ask. I am always grateful to those like you who are prepared to search for someone like me who is totally unrelated to them,
Regards Julie
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 19 February 14 19:50 GMT (UK) »
Julie, you are going great guns on this (or is it SP units  :P  ;D). Once it starts to unravel a bit, a lot of information comes together quickly. To be honest, you have to do it this way, in quick spurts, as this is the way you can keep it all in your head and make the big leaps.

The death of the Thomas you mentioned was an Eadie (for a moment, I thought Duncan was still about!).

When did Ellen marry James Connell? I can see it on online trees mid 1870s, but can't see it on SP. Did Ellen show as widowed in 1881 whilst staying with the Ferries? 

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Genie24

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 19 February 14 20:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica!
Yes I am quite pleased with what I have found so far. Unfortunately, the Scottish census don't show the images so details are missed but on the 1881 census, when  she is visiting her daughter in Greenock, she is just shown as visitor Mrs Connal. On the 1891 census she is visiting a friend Catherine Britton at 105 Main Street, Glasgow. Helen Connell female. In the 1901 census she is again visiting her daughter in Sunderland Ellen Connell Visitor widow. On the 1911 census Ellen Carlie (mis-transcribed Eadie) mother-in-law, widowed resident. So documentary evidence only confirms that she is a widow arpund 1901 when she is most probably widowed in 1881.
Regarding her marriage to Connell. I am afraid I have an awful habit of adding data to my tree and forgetting to add the source so 1. I don't know where I got the name James from and 2. where I got the date 1875 from. Probably someone else's tree but I have no documentary evidence to support this.
Regards Julie
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 19 February 14 21:17 GMT (UK) »
Julie, in 1881, Helen is still showing as married so James Connell still about... Although I have struggled to find marriage from general searches on SP still.

I thought she might not have had a legal marriage, which might explain why she showed as still Eadie in 1911, but that is just guesswork, and because I can't find the marriage, which makes my active brain overwork  ::)

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Genie24

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 08 March 14 14:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica,
I thought you might be interested to hear how my research has progressed since you so kindly helped me a few weeks ago.
The death record for Duncan McKenzie that I thought was the wrong one, I now think is the correct one. I printed it off then realised I had paid for it twice as I had it in my file from when I first started researching. I had dismissed it as he was the wrong age and the parents were not the ones I had in my tree (Duncan McKenzie and Margaret Brunton). His age was 35 giving his date of birth as 1825 when I had 1830. The address was 5 Highland Close, Greenock. However, when I have delved deeper with his wife Ellen (Dunnning/Dunyon....etc the list is endless) I have found her marriage to John Eadie on 4th August 1861. The address they both give is Highland Close. Also the death record (6th September 1863) of her daughter Elizabeth born after her father's death gives an address of 1 Highland Close, Greenock. Surely this is not just a coincidence. His occupation was Boilermaker and the cause of death was Pneumonia. I think that Duncan and John Eadie may have been friends or worked together. John was a widow when he married Ellen.
This means that all of the information I have in my tree going back from Duncan McKenzie is incorrect so I am now working on that. His parents names on the death record are given as John McKenzie (Railway Labourer) and Isabella McKenzie maiden name McGregor. This makes complete sense as Ellen and Duncan's first two children are named John and Isabella so it is all now falling in to place.
So even though I have found out the answer to the mystery of my great X 3 grandfather's death, I now have further questions. Where was he born? ( I originally thought he was born in Paisley). Where did they live? I am struggling to find them on the census records. Duncan McKenzie was a very common name. Who was John Eadie's first wife? Where did they live? Were they living near Ellen and Duncan.
I am inclined to agree with you regarding Ellen's third marriage to Connell. She married some time between 1871 and 1881 and he died some time between 1881 and 1901. I don't think I will ever find an answer to that. I am also unable to find a marriage or any evidence of children, even though Ellen would have still been of child bearing age.
I am also working on the possibility of three other siblings of Ellen living in Greenock at that time. I put Dunyon in Familysearch and an Elizabeth, Matthew and Rose Ann cropped up. I am trying to find them on census records to establish if they too were born in Ireland.
The quest continues!
Julie
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 09 March 14 10:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Julie

Great to hear the updates  :)

Is the death you mention for Duncan the one that Don mentioned early on (1860 - MCKENZIE   DUNCAN in GREENOCK NEW OR MIDDLE, ref. 564/01 0176)?

Duncan and Ellen married in 1850 didn't they. Have you found them on the 1851 census? I thought this might be them that year, although the transcript likely has erred on Duncan's age?

Duncan Mckenzie 76 Labourer Sugar House b. Ireland
Helen Mckenzie 25 b. Ireland
John Mckenzie 1 Month b. Greenock
Address: Market Street Allisons Land, Greenock Middle

A bit of a worry about possible range of occupations for Duncan: Rivetter, shipwright, boilermaker and possibly a labourer in a sugar house (from above).

Just for background here, is this Ellen and second marriage household in 1871:

John Eadie    52 b. Dysart, fifeshire
Ellen Eadie 40 b. Ireland
Ellen Eadie 7
Isabella Eadie 14...McKenzie
Daniel Eadie 13...McKenzie
Alex Eadie 5
Sarah Ann Eadie    Under 4 Months
Address: 7 Broad Close, Greenock

From the children's names, Alexander and Sarah Ann were John and Ellen's children and Isabella and Daniel from the McKenzie marriage.

From the 1861 marriage where John showed as widower, what his address and parents' names? Witnesses' names? Did John's marriage age match what you have on his death etc. Just trying to see if we can find him in earlier censuses.

Monica


Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Genie24

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 09 March 14 14:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica,
Yes that is Ellen and her first child John living at Market Street, Greenock. I think that the Duncan McKenzie aged 76 is Duncan's grandfather Sugar House Labourer or they have made a mistake with the age and it should read 26. I also found a Duncan McKenzie on the 1841 census living at 24 Market Street but he was 9 years old which would mean he was born around 1832 in Greenock. I thought I had found her son John on the 1871 census but his parents were the wrong ones. I got his marriage record from Scotland's People and his address was Market Street so I think may be connected. It is possible that there was another branch of the family in the area. They tended to name their children with the same names.I can't find a marriage for a John McKenzie and Isabella McGregor or a birth for Duncan. The one on Familysearch had parents Duncan McKenzie and Margaret Brunton. I believed this to be him but his death record proves otherwise. The only one on Familysearch is not in that era. I can't find John's birth either so think they may not have registered him but his age on the 1851 census shows him as 4 months so must have been born January 1851.
That is Ellen on the 1871 census with John Eadie. John, her eldest has moved out, so just Daniel and Isabella (my great, great grandmother) to her first marriage and Alexander and Sarah Ann John's children. They also had an Elizabeth (Duncan's child born after his death)  and Thomas (John's child). Both died in infancy. I found their death records. John's parents were Thomas Eadie born 1787 Fife and died 1857 St. Clair Town. His mother was Margaret Philip 1786-1861 Fife.
I don't think this is going to be easy.
Julie
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 09 March 14 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Frustrating fun!

Looking at the 1851 transcript for that McKenzie family shows Helen as wife, so very likely Duncan's age has been mistranscribed as does happen. I tried searching the entry on FreeCen http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl as their coverage of 1851 is continuing to gather pace, but couldn't see that entry unfortunately.

If this entry is the correct one, then you have an Irish element, which as always makes things very tricky. With Duncan having died by 1861, the 1851 census is the only one that you can be certain of that it is him. Still worried about all the multiple occupations for him though as they are all quite different, and shipwright and rivetter would require an apprentice time.

Unfortunately, pre 1855 in Scotland is always tricky. Only about a third of births and marriages were recorded (deaths even worse).

Monica

Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DonM

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,597
    • View Profile
Re: Looking for death records for John Ferries and Duncan McKenzie
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 09 March 14 16:08 GMT (UK) »
Is this the death you seek?

Duncan McKenzie (boilermaker) age 35 died 12 JUL 1860 in Greenock, he was married but spouse not identified. Informant was his father John McKenzie (railway worker).  His mother was Isabella McGregor.

Don
I have turned off all email notifications, thank you.