Author Topic: James family of Co Carlow  (Read 13409 times)

Offline KenJames7777

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James family of Co Carlow
« on: Friday 07 February 14 21:29 GMT (UK) »
I have the marriage cert of my G-Grandfather, but cannot seem to go farther back.  Any help would be appreciated.
Edward James (B-bet 1833-1845) of Co. Carlow married Anne Eliza Leech (B-Nov 21 1839) of Co. Carlow on July 31, 1867 at the Kiltennell Church. However that's where the trail goes cold.
(a) From searching, I believe his parents are listed as Edward JAMES and Lady GILTRAP (but unsure).
(b) From searching, I believe her parents were George LEECH and Elizabeth (but unsure).
I believe George Leech was the Postmaster in Kiltennell
Thanks in Advance

Offline DORAN54

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #1 on: Friday 07 February 14 21:57 GMT (UK) »
hi and welcome to rootschat it looks like they may have gone to Ontario  Canada  from having a quick look there is a tree also on ancestry which shows  their last 3  children were born out there the last child being born in Ireland 1875 so they went some time  before 1878

Offline greeneyedgirl

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 01 May 14 16:02 BST (UK) »
Hi,I have found bits and pieces which may help in your family search.I will start from closer and go backwards.

children of Edward James/Anne Eliza Leech:
Charlotte Mary b 15 May 1868 bap 28 June 1868
Edward Simmons b 16 March 1870 bap 3 April 1870
Elizabeth Jane b 19 Nov 1872 bap 1 Jan 1873
William Raymond b 13 March 1875
Margaret b 7 July 1878 bap 21 Aug 1878
Robert Charles b 10 Feb 1881

Also found these marriages of children of George Leech and Edward James:

Charlotte Leech  father:George Leech
Bartholomew Goold  father:James Goold
married 21 Feb 1866 Killeshin,Carlow

Robert Leech father:George Leech age:25 born 1826
Mary Halsey father:John Halsey age:22 born 1829
married 17 Sept 1851 Clonmore,Wexford
*I'm thinking they are children of George Leech/Sarah May

Mary James  father:Edward James
Charles Erratt  father:Stephen Erratt
married 14 May 1859 Carlow

Thomas James  father:Edward James
Susan Agar  father:John Agar
married 15 July 1861 Carlow

Thomas James  father:Edward James
Heather Grace  father:not listed
married 3 July 1867 Carlow

Tithe Applotment Books:1814-1838

1825 Edward James
townland:Dunleckny
parish:Dunleckny
county:Carlow

1825 George Leech
townland:Listerlin
parish:Listerlin
county:Kilkenny

I have found 3 marriages for George Leech:

George Leech
address:Listerting
Sarah May
address:Dunleckny
married 24 Sept 1820
in Dunlecky,Carlow(COI)

Sarah dies 8 yrs later in 1828 at the age of 34 in Dunleckny,Carlow.
*George's marriage to Sarah may have produced the children Charlotte & Robert whose marriages are above.I could not find childrens births however.

Later George Leech marries Elizabeth ? and they have child Anna Eliza Leech on 21 Nov 1839. I assume Elizabeth either died in childbirth or in famine as no other children are found of this union.

Then,George Leech marries a third time:
George Leech
address:Killedmond
gentleman     widower
father:James Leech
father's occ:farmer
Florinda Cole Shannor
address:Graig
single
father's occ:attorney at law
married 19 June 1848
at Kiltennel,Carlow(COI)

Florinda dies in St Mullins,Carlow 11 March 1868 at age 62 and is buried Kiltennel,Carlow(COI)

I found 2 marriages for Edward James:

Edward James & Mary McDonnell
married 24 Aug 1829
Killeshin,Carlow(COI)

I have found the births of 2 children of this marriage but believe there are probably more.The fact of the others misssing could be the parish registers were too illegible to transcribe or the family didn't pay the fee to record birth(as this is famine time its a distinct possibility).

George James
address:Graigue
parents:Edward James(labourer) and Mary James
20 Feb 1831  Killeshin,Carlow(COI)

Thomas James
address:Carlow
parents:Edward James(servant) and Mary James
19 July 1835  Killeshin,Carlow(COI)


Children of Edward James' 2nd marriage:

William
b 8 Dec 1845  bap 19 Dec 1845
Carlow(COI)
parents:Edward & Hester James

William
b 29 Aug 1852 bap 1 Sept 1852
Carlow(COI)
parents:Edward & Hester James

Hannah
b 15 Jan 1855 bap 7 March 1855
Carlow(COI)
parents:Edward & Esther James

George
b 12 Feb 1857 bap 4 March 1857
Carlow(COI)
parents:Edward & Esther James

Anne
b 22 March 1862 bap 7 May 1862
Carlow (COI)
parents:Edward & Esther James

Going back another generation I have found 2 families with Edward as the father:

#1 Edward James and wife Elizabeth:
Thomas b 19 June 1791
Mary Ann b 22 July 1792
John b 30 April 1793
Edward b 7 Aug 1795
Elizabeth b 31 March 1797
Edward b 1 June 1799
Edward b 19 April 1801
Susanna b 17 May 1803
Elinor & Susanna b 29 April 1804
*all in Tullow bap Carlow(COI)

#2 Edward James and wife Rachael:
Mary b 19 July 1798
Richard b 31 March 1804 bap 3 Apr 1804
Benjamin b 8 July 1806 bap 3 Aug 1806
Edward b 2 Aug 1808 bap 7 Aug 1808
John b 6 May 1813 bap 9 May 1813
Joseph b 10 March 1816 bap 17 March 1816
Jacob b 25 Dec 1818 bap 27 Dec 1818
*all in Dunleckny bap Carlow(COI)

#2 familys Edward James died on 26 April 1848 age 86 Dunleckny,Carlow(COI)
his wife Rachael James died on 12 July 1861 age 87 Dunleckny,Carlow(COI)

I did find a death of an Edward James on 7 Nov 1844 in Tankards Town,Tullow age 42 but I do not know which one this is.

Lastly,I found this;

Birth:
Edward James
baptised: 23 November 1755
parents:William & Mary James
place:Tullow,co Carlow

Hope this helps,Kim

Offline johugo

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 26 August 15 10:24 BST (UK) »
I am searching for any information on the parents of a William James (gardener, of Clogrennan), born c. 1840, and Anne Dillon (of Oak park) who married on 26 Aug 1862 in Evington, Painestown parish, Co. Carlow.

My great-grandmother was their daughter Isabella born c. 1864 Clogrennan, Co. Carlow (no birth record), brother of a Thomas James born 1876 Blackrock, Co. Dublin (who married Agnes Palmer in York, Ontario, Canada in 1916). Their connection is from 1901 census records. His parents are confirmed on his marriage document. William and Anne had 12 children that I can find, both in Carlow and later around Dublin. William was a gardener.

William's father was recorded as a Joseph James (coachman) on the marriage document.

I have traced a Joseph James (servant) married to Isabella Kavanagh, parents of:
Thomas (1839) parish Tinryland - Roman Catholic baptism, mother Isabella Kavanagh
Isabella (1842) parish Kiltennel - COI baptism, parents Joseph James (of Ballinree) and Isabella James
Joseph (1844) parish Kiltennel - COI baptism, parents Joseph James (of Ballinree) and Isabella James

Isabella remarried Timothy Cahill, land steward, (both of Ballinree) on 13 Dec 1847 in Lorum parish COI (name Isabella Kavanagh, alias James, record signed Isabella James) so Joseph must have died before then. Isabella promptly gave birth to Sarah Anne Cahill on 1 January 1848, so she must have been heavily pregnant at the time of their marriage!

Isabella Cahill was buried in Kiltennel parish (address Ballinree, Lorum) on 26 Aug 1873, age 65 (estimated birth 1808).

Could Joseph and Isabella be the father and mother of William James (who must have been born around the same time as their children)? It might account for the name Isabella given to his daughter. In all the James I have researched, the names Joseph and Isabella are rare.

All the above suggest that Isabella Kavanagh was a Catholic who converted. It's also tempting to ask questions about whether both of Isabella's marriages were as a result of pregnancy - Joseph may have risked disinheritance for marrying a Catholic. Were they married when she baptised their first child Thomas as a Roman Catholic under her name? There must be quite a story here!

William's father Joseph wasn't present at William's marriage in 1862, so an early death may account for that.

Anne Dillon's father was a Thomas Dillon, farmer. William and Anne's marriage was witnessed by Henry Dillon and Nathaniel Dillon. Henry may have been father of the bride Thomas' brother - I have found both names in the Griffith's valuation records, where a Thomas was leasing land at Ballyknockan from a Henry in 1852. The Dillons were prominent in the area, but I can find no concrete trace of this generation.

Frustratingly, I have no birth records for any of the key people: Joseph James c. 1810, Thomas Dillon c. 1810, William James c. 1840, Anne Dillon c. 1840, Isabella James c. 1864.

Any information would be very much appreciated!


Offline greeneyedgirl

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 27 August 15 05:47 BST (UK) »
Hi, I looked up the main people you were seeking records on and have found some records although no guarantee these are the ones you seek they look possible to be good matches.

Birth:
Anne Dillon
bap 21 Aug 1829
Bagenalstown, Carlow
father: Thomas Dillon
mother:Ellen/Eleanor Kennedy
* this is the only Anne with father Thomas birth I could find.  If this is indeed her then I found these siblings;
Catherine bap 16 Sept 1827
Mary bap 4 Sept 1831
Thomas bap 29 Dec 1833
Elizabeth bap 11 Dec 1836
Jane bap 4 Aug 1839
Jane bap 23 May 1841
Edward bap 25 Feb 1844

** marriage 2 Dec 1826 Bagenalstown  Thomas Dillon  address: ---- and Ellen Kenedy  address: Bagenalstown  witnesses:Thomas Kenedy & Michael Hoey  (no parents listed)

Births for Thomas Dillon:

Thomas Dillon
address: Barrack Lane
place: Tullow, Carlow
bap: 24 June 1798
no parents listed

Thomas Dillon
address: Rathvarren
place: Tullow, Carlow
bap: 26 Feb 1798
father: John Dillon
mother: Sally Cleary

Thomas Dillon
address: Bray, Wicklow
bap: 24 May 1802
father: Michael Dillon
mother: Judith Murray

Thomas Dillon
address: Freshford,Kilkenny
bap:27 Feb 1802
father: William Dillon
mother: Mary Cooke

Birth:

William James
address: Oakpark
bap: 25 Sept 1837
Cathedral of the Assumption, Carlow
father: Joseph James
mother: Isabella Kavanagh

Birth:

Joseph James
bap: 21 June 1807
place: Wicklow, co Wicklow
father: Thomas James
mother:Mary Doyle
witnesses: John Kavanagh & Mary Whelan
* could John Kavanagh be any relation to Joseph's future wife Isabella?

Hope this may be helpful, Kim

Offline johugo

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 27 August 15 06:37 BST (UK) »
Dear Kim

Wow! Thank you so much! I have been searching for months and thought I had exhausted all bases.

There must be record sets out there I haven't found yet... will keep looking.

Kind regards, Jo

Offline johugo

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 23 September 15 09:51 BST (UK) »
Hi again Kim

I need to ask another favour!

Recently you found some fantastic records for me:

Birth:
William James
address: Oakpark
bap: 25 Sept 1837
Cathedral of the Assumption, Carlow
father: Joseph James
mother: Isabella Kavanagh

Birth:
Joseph James
bap: 21 June 1807
place: Wicklow, co Wicklow
father: Thomas James
mother:Mary Doyle
witnesses: John Kavanagh & Mary Whelan
* could John Kavanagh be any relation to Joseph's future wife Isabella

I have now been able to locate these register pages in the NLI online images, and would like to search further in these RC records - but cannot for the life of me find a searchable online database that covers these particular parishes (apart from the register images, which are really time consuming to go through!). I'm based in South Africa, so the internet is my only option.

Can you point me in the right direction?

I'm also trying to find an online database of Cantwell's Memorials. Although findmypast.ie claims to have them, all I have found there are an index of names with no details (even for paid-for 'transcriptions'!). Do you know of any site that supplies these?

Your help is really appreciated!

Kind regards, Jo

Offline greeneyedgirl

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 24 September 15 07:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Jo, the two sites that work the best for areas you are searching are irishgenealogy.ie (which has records for Carlow and Dublin-free) and rootsireland.ie (which is pay per view by the month or longer) but don't hesitate to google any place or person as sometimes you come up with other records like the IGP websites for different counties(IGP is Irish Genealogical Projects) or you may find info about said person. It appears that short of buying the CD-ROM of Brian Cantwell's memorials of the dead, you would have to go to certain archives to view the complete details of persons in the various graveyards. I did come across a person on rootschat by the name of kidja in the listings for Ireland who appears to have the CD. You may want to contact them as they seem to be willing to do a lookup. I have one question for you. I am looking to get a death cert for someone who died in 1933 Krugerdorf,South Africa. Would you know where to get this cert? If I can help more, please don't hesitate to let me know. Kim

Offline johugo

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Re: James family of Co Carlow
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 24 September 15 08:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Kim

Thanks again for your help. I have hesitated to take out a rootsireland subscription, since their searches are so unfriendly, and I have no indication that they have records that the other sites don't! But maybe I should give them a try...

The South African place name you mentioned is Krugersdorp (not an f - 'dorp' is the Dutch / Afrikaans word for town), which is a suburb of Johannesburg in what is now Gauteng, historically the Transvaal. It was probably an independent town long ago, as it's name suggests, and named after president Paul Kruger. In Afrikaans words are strung together with no gaps, making for some very long and unintelligible place names!

To be honest, I haven't done much research in South Africa, since my Hugo family tree was compiled by a researcher a number of years ago! Also my family are based in the Cape, which has a much older and more established records collection.

Unfortunately, I do know that the government offices here are slow and difficult to navigate, so getting a death cert maybe a long process. For instance, the following web site, which should be running, came up completely unresponsive this morning: http://www.national.archives.gov.za

I did find this site, which gives some pointers and links for ordering a cert (or you can hire her to do it for you): http://southafricanfamilyhistory.com/birth-marriage-and-death-records/

As far as I can make out, the LDS have the best collection of records for checking reference data. If you really need the official certificate, and come up blank, let me know, as I have a contact in Cape Town who (for a fee) navigates the Home Affairs labyrinth - often involving queuing in the early hours of the morning!

Hope this helps!

There is one other thing I meant to ask - do you know what the marriage customs were regarding mixed Catholic / COI marriages in Ireland c. 1820 - 1840? Where couples could marry and whether one of them had to convert first? I wonder whether unmarried couples existed and whether they were accepted or shunned, and could baptise their children... I've googled this, but don't seem to find any answers.

Kind regards, Jo