Author Topic: Missing in 1891 census  (Read 1380 times)

Offline polkadot41

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Missing in 1891 census
« on: Friday 14 February 14 09:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Hoping a fresh set of eyes or ideas may help for 1891c as I have been searching forever!

Hannah Maria Simm b1852 Bedlington, Northumberland widow (& family)
Hannah Maria Simm b 1877 Newcastle, Northumberland;
Charlotte Simm b 1880 Newcastle; John George Simm b 1882/83 Newcastle;
Ann/Annie b 1886 Newcastle.

I also looked to see if any family members had taken them in, and Hannah's sister Isabella Badger (husband James) is also evading me so maybe they are together?  The family have stayed in the Newcastle area and the children do appear in 1901c in various homes and institutions as Hannah dies in 1897.

thank you
Anita

Offline garstonite

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #1 on: Friday 14 February 14 10:33 GMT (UK) »
Hiya - what year did the father / husband WilliamGilbert Simm die ?
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline tina morana

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #2 on: Friday 14 February 14 10:42 GMT (UK) »
June 1890 Free BMD aged 41yrs.
There is a tree in Anc which goes to Hannah's parents, no 1891 census listed.


Tinam

Cornthwaite, Morana, Pearce, Gaffney, Hazlehurst, Milburn
This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"
or  "All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Offline garstonite

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #3 on: Friday 14 February 14 10:52 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Tinam
Annie was christened 5th dec 1887 - so was she b 1887 ? or christened late ?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JQSY-RXS

if William died 10 months before the 1901 census with Hannah left with
Hannah aged 13
Charlotte aged 10
John 8
Annie aged 3-4
she would have struggled - could they have been placed in an Institute ?  maybe that`s why you can`t find them ...found a bit of info on the family ...ie John George marriage - but can`t find them in Newcastle in 1891 census ??...maybe Simm has been mistranscribed ...anyway - did try - but no luck ...
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford


Offline heatherjulie

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #4 on: Friday 14 February 14 11:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Is this the correct family in 1881?
1 ??Court
William Simm  31
Hannah M. Simm  27
Hannah M. Simm  3
Charlotte Simm 

5059/13/17

Offline polkadot41

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #5 on: Friday 14 February 14 16:55 GMT (UK) »
Hello

Yes this is the right family.  All of them are missing in 1891c, I have checked the Union House in Westgate Road, Newcastle but they are not there.  Hannah Jnr marries and takes Charlotte in (1901); John George is  listed as a Scavenger in 1901c but then joins the Northumberland Fusiliers in July 1901 and dies in 1918 after rejoining in 1915 in the North Staffordshire Regiment.

Annie is in a school for destitute girls, Whitley in 1901c; and there is another child called William Gilbert Simm who appears in 1901c at the Union Workhouse, Westgate Road.  He dies in 1916 DLI.

William Gilbert Jnr's birth registration is missing and all records make him out to be born in 1892 but his "father" had died in 1890!

Annie, Charlotte & William Gilbert Jnr all commit suicide; Charlotte is in an abusive marriage and I have been told she drowns herself; William tells fellow soldiers that Annie killed herself and then shoots himself in the trenches.

Thank you for your time, hope this helps
Anita

Offline mosiefish

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #6 on: Friday 14 February 14 18:04 GMT (UK) »
I may be wrong, but it may be worth taking a look at this family:

64 Seaham Street, Westgate. 
Thomas Lockhart, Head, Mar, 37, Coal Miner, Carlisle
Hannah, Wife, Mar, 38 Northumberland Bedd(l)ington - there is a definite l on the original
MRIA (Could be Hannah Maria), Daur, 13
Mary, Daur, 13
Thomas, Son, 11
JOHN G, Son, 8
CHARLOT, Daur, 10
Frances, Daur, 5
ANNIE, Daur, 3
Ellen, Daur, 12

Mo

All children born Newcastle.

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton
Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peak(e)
Devon: Martin, Walter(s)

Offline polkadot41

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #7 on: Friday 14 February 14 21:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mo

YES you have definitely solved it.  These are are a mixture of his and her family.  Everyone of her childrens names and ages matches and that means that William Gilbert Simm Jnr was probably Lockharts son which there is a birth registration for a William Lockart in 1892.

There dosen't seem to be a marriage between Thomas & Hannah and so when she died her children were left to the their own manage, including what looks like his own son.

Thank you so much, this info really helps
Anita

Offline mosiefish

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Re: Missing in 1891 census
« Reply #8 on: Friday 14 February 14 21:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Just in case you ever try to trace the Lockharts, I think Thomas may have been born a Wilson.  If you look further up the census page you will find another Lockhart family with some born Carlisle.  I have traced the family back and their mother Mary Wilson nee? didn`t marry John Lockhart until 1875.  Their "children" were actually born Wilson if you go back to the 1881 census.

Mo
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Lancs: Harrison, Entwistle, Devine, Grundy, Ashworth, Freeman, Jackson, Rushton
Cornwall: Rich, Binney, Peak(e)
Devon: Martin, Walter(s)