Author Topic: todmorden  (Read 5355 times)

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 07 November 15 16:11 GMT (UK) »
I think CatherinetheGreat will have to do a couple more posts in order to pm you.
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline CatherinetheGreat

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 07 November 15 20:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi Forest Floor
Good to make contact with a second cousin once removed.
Further to my post I need to say that I have based my assumptions on the following:
Kate had a child Ernest in 1883 . She was young so I presume got married when pregnant to Frank Hardy who lived near her in Langley Mill, he was a coal miner like her father William.
How she got together with Fred I do not know but it obvious from census returns that he moved about being a stone mason(as was my grandfather William) settling eventually in Darley Dale . The problem is compounded by his change of name , being registered as Edward at death and in a census record. I have traced who I think were his parents to the 1861 census. They could have been Amos Scholfield and Sarah nee Smith. They moved from Todmorden to London see census records. Why I think they are his parents is because Amos was a builder and Fred is more likely to have folowed this kind of trade than being a mill worker as most others were in the Rochdale area at the time. Why Fred was known as Smith is a mystery but I do know that on my grandfather's death my grandmother got cross with my mother for inscribing Schofield( William's second name) on his gravestone , why that was she never knew! No one asked the right questions in those days!
My grandparents lived in Drabbles Road Matlock from 1926. As a child I knew my great aunts Lily and Bertha but there was never any mention of anyone else.
Any info you have would be great.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 08 November 15 15:50 GMT (UK) »

Further to my post I need to say that I have based my assumptions on the following:
Kate had a child Ernest in 1883 .

She was young so I presume got married when pregnant to Frank Hardy who lived near her in Langley Mill, he was a coal miner like her father William.

How she got together with Fred I do not know but it obvious from census returns that he moved about being a stone mason(as was my grandfather William) settling eventually in Darley Dale .

The problem is compounded by his change of name , being registered as Edward at death and in a census record. I have traced who I think were his parents to the 1861 census. They could have been Amos Scholfield and Sarah nee Smith. They moved from Todmorden to London see census records.

Why I think they are his parents is because Amos was a builder and Fred is more likely to have folowed this kind of trade

For info. for anyone looking

here are Fred & Kate on 1901/91 c

1901 RG13; Piece: 3266; Folio: 47; Page: 5
Fred SMITH 52 Todmorden stone mason
Kate 36 Lanley Mills Notts
Ernest 18 Radford Notts stonemason
William 11 Yorks
Percy 6 Darley Dale
Bertha 4
Lily 3
William BIRCUMSHAW lodger 66 Saleston Notts

1891 RG12; Piece: 2775; Folio: 105; Page: 5
Fred Schofield Smith 35 Todmorden stone mason
Kate 26
Ernest B 8
Edward A 4
William H 1

Kate widowed by 1911, dau Ellen Smith born 1907 Darley

and here is Amos & Sarah marriage &  census detail

27 Sep 1847 St John the Baptist, Halifax Yorkshire, England
Amos SCHOLFIELD 22 no father named
Sarah SMITH 19  father John occ painter
Both single both res. Langfield
Witnesses John Holden (x) & John Thomas

1851 HO107; Piece: 2289; Folio: 229; Page: 29
Amos SCHOLFIELD 25 Walsden Lancashire Joiner & Builder
Sarah 22 Langfield Yorkshire
Sidney 2   
Sarah Ann 5 mths   

1861 RG 9; Piece: 3234; Folio: 92; Page: 7
Amos Scholfield 35 Walsden Lancashire Joiner & Builder
Sarah 35 Todmorden Yorkshire
James E 8   
FRED 5     
Emily 5   
Mary Ann Winsley 20

1871c RG10; Piece: 636; Folio: 9; Page: 12
Bermondsey London
Amos Schofield 45 Rochdale builders foreman
Sarah 42
Sarah A 20 Halifax
James E 17 Halifax Clerk
Emily 15 Halifax
FRED 15 Halifax boy in office
John 4 Hackney Middlesex

1881c Bermondsey London
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6Y-ZVHH
Fred is no longer at home

family search have these christening entries surname
SCHOLFIELD parents Amos & Sarah
Walsden  Lancashire
Fred 1855 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NF7J-GFZ
Emily 1855 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J7JY-1PP
John 1877 born 1867 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTHR-J6Y

Baptisms parents Amos SCHOLFIELD occ Builder/Joiner & Sarah

Stone Cross Todmorden, Sidney 26 Aug 1848 born 3 Jul, abode Stack Hill in Langfield
Christ Church, Sarah Ann 3 Nov 1850, abode School Lane
              James Edward 7 May 1854 abode York Place
St Peter Walsden Emily & FRED 25 Nov 1855 abode Todmorden in Langsfield
                          John 5 Aug 1877 born 21 Feb 1867










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Offline forestfloor

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 08 November 15 17:19 GMT (UK) »
Hello Catherine the Great,I tend to agree with you about Amos and Sarah being Freds parents,I have exausted the info on Ancestry after searching for 4 years.I have Freds sons as my Grandfather Percy,your Grandfather William Henry Smith,Edward,Ernest,and sisters Bertha who married Arther Hawley in 1921,Lily who married Reginald B Scothern in 1919 and Ellen(Nelly) who marrield Ernest Batten in 1917.Hope this information is correct.Sorry ,I have just found another bit of the puzzel and that is that Edward A Smith died in1896 reg Bakewell aged 9.Do you know where any of the family is buried. thanks Jane.


Offline CatherinetheGreat

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #22 on: Monday 09 November 15 22:13 GMT (UK) »
 Hi Forestfloor
First of all I am interested as to why you think William' s second name was Henry as we have always known him as Wm SchofieldSmith and this is on his gravestone with his wife Alice in St Giles churchyard Matlock. True, it does give the initial H on the 1891 census but I have always taken this as a misprint.
I believe that Fred and Kate are buried in the old churchyard at Darley Dale but I don't think there is a stone , I have looked. Ernest married Annie in 1910 and their son was Victor born 1911.
I am confused about Ellen as she was only born in 1906 so could not have got married in 1917...   ???I found her birth at the Derbyshire Record office. There was also Edith who was born around 1904 but died 1908. I also believe Edward was buried at St Helen's Darley  Dale but have not looked for his stone if there is one. Over  to you ! 

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 12:44 GMT (UK) »
I have just found another bit of the puzzel and that is that

Edward A Smith died in1896 reg Bakewell aged 9.

Do you know where any of the family is buried.

On the original entry for the 1891 census Edward Smith's middle initial is 'A'

Edward Albert Smith Age at Death:   9
1896 Jan-Feb-Mar Bakewell Derbyshire Volume:   7b Page:   433

Edward Albert Smith Burial Age:   9
Burial Date: 13 Mar 1896 Darley, Darley, Derbyshire, England

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Offline forestfloor

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 14:36 GMT (UK) »
Hello ladyhawk Thankyou for the information you have kindly found for me.Its a great help and to Catherinthe Great. After going  through my research ii have found some glaring silly mistakes.William i hope married to Alice Eyre in 1918. their daughter Margorie was born in 1921.Now i hope this is right but my Grandfather told my mum that Kate remarried in1914 to another Smith, Thomas Smith and that Kate died in childbirth to twins in 1916.Have you any information about Ellen.I know Matlock very well so will seek out the churchyards when weather improves.  regards jane.

Offline forestfloor

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 15:07 GMT (UK) »
Hello again Catherine the Great,hope you can help me with this,Mum once told me about a cousin she had in Matlock called Lesley Smith.He was a milkman?...and there was talk about a Postoffice.Mum died in 2011 so I wished I had took more notice. Regards Jane.

Offline CatherinetheGreat

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Re: todmorden
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 10 November 15 17:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi forest floor
Well the plot thickens . Yes your facts re William are correct. You did not mention Ellen and her marriage ...
As regards Kate this is news to me but I vaguely recall something about dieing early but if Percy said that , it must be true as she was his mother. More stuff to research!as regards The post office the only link is that my mum was a telephoning at the post office in Matlock and that Bertha's son was called Leslie Hawley. Don't know if he was a milkman. Let's know if you have any other info or queries.