Author Topic: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!  (Read 3841 times)

Offline LShack

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 01 September 18 23:05 BST (UK) »
Here is my third post.  Do you think Solomon came to England with a sibling, because I can't imagine why he would come by himself?

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Offline Rena

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 02 September 18 00:27 BST (UK) »
Hi  I am Solomon's great great grandaughter. My grandmother Lilian Hart told me that his original surname was Hartzen or maybe Hertzen.

Hi,
I landed on this topic out of curiosity.  I don't have Dutch roots but did have trouble discovering my Hanovarian roots on mainland Europe. 

As you now know the surname, have you enquired whether there are any legal documents in the Amsterdam "Notarial Records" to see if there is mention of the family?  As described about a third of the way down in this document

http://files.lib.byu.edu/family-history-library/research-outlines/Europe/Netherlands.pdf

"Notarial records often do not contain their own indexes. Fortunately, the Dutch archives are
indexing the notarial records. Always check for the existence of indexes before using the records. Large towns had several notaries at one time. Cumulative indexes for these places will save you an enormous amount of time. For example, such indexes have been created for Amsterdam, Breda, Dordrecht, Haarlem, ’s-Gravenhage, Rotterdam, and Utrecht.
While you will find all kinds of legal documents in notarial records, the most useful for genealogical
research include:
•    Wills [testamenten]
•    Marriage contracts [huwelijksvoorwaarden].
•    Divisions of estates [boedelscheidingen or  akten van scheiding en deling]. "
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

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Offline jennycollins

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 02 September 18 12:45 BST (UK) »
Hi I've never really looked into all this but did see on a tv documentary that many European Jewish people did come to Liverpool in the 19th century because the city was booming. According to my grandmother the original surname was Hartzen or similar.

Offline Rena

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 02 September 18 13:32 BST (UK) »
Hi I've never really looked into all this but did see on a tv documentary that many European Jewish people did come to Liverpool in the 19th century because the city was booming. According to my grandmother the original surname was Hartzen or similar.

Surnames were introduced at varying decades across Europe in the 11th century. 

The Germanic tribes included a "z" in their names but I've never seen a Dutch name which usually had a "j" so would be something like = Hertje.

If the ancestor was born in Amsterdam it might indicate that the family were crossing European mainland with the intention of settling in the U.K.

This familysearch web page lists Surname Distribution Maps of the Netherlands and Germany
 
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Surname_Distribution_Maps
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy<br />MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell<br />Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie<br />Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell<br />Perthshire: Brown Ferguson<br />Wales: McCarthy, Thomas<br />England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells<br />Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline davidqueneherve

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 02 September 18 18:31 BST (UK) »
If I remember well, during the French occupation of the Netherlands, Napoleon ordered that everybody without a last name had to choose one.

http://langenberg-laagland.com/showmedia.php?mediaID=76


Offline DawnEG

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 25 November 18 18:18 GMT (UK) »
I just saw these posts on Solomon Hart.   He was my 3rd great grandfather.  His daughter Hannah married my 2nd great grandfather Samuel Kenney Gardham.   Like all those in these posts, I am having difficulty trying to figure out who Solomon's parents were.   Several family trees in Ancestry.ca have his parents listed as Machiel Meijer de Hart and Betje Salomon Swijt.   I have not been able to confirm that.   Are there any updates on the search for Solomon's parents?

Offline LShack

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 25 November 18 23:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dawn,
My 3rd grandfather was Solomon Hart.  I don't think the people you mentioned are his parents, since he listed his father's name as Solomon.  I heard from someone that he came to England with a brother who went to London and became a Rabbi there.  I recently had my DNA tested and have a small percentage of Jewish, and a some unidentified Iberian.  I am wondering if Solomon was a Sephardic Jew, since there was a thriving colony in Amsterdam, and some of Solomon and Margaret's daughters have Spanish names?  I think most of our information is speculative, I hope one day someone tracks him and his family down.

Offline TreeSpirit

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #25 on: Monday 26 November 18 12:52 GMT (UK) »
Nothing ventured, Nothing gained ... Have you had a look at this possibility yet?

Hartog Salomon Stuart/Swart/Offenbach b abt 1784 Amsterdam NH (https://www.dutchjewry.org/genealogy/ashkenazi/17142.htm )
X 22 Dec 1811 Amsterdam NH (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLMV-6KMW )
Mietje/Maria Alexander Haring b abt1792 Amsterdam NH, d 3-09-1818 Amsterdam NH (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP34-NK88 )
-
I was able to find 3 children:
Hanna Stuart b 10-7-1813 Middelharnis ZH (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6114-2Q?i=46&cc=1576401&cat=109570 )
Judic Hartog Stuart b 10-8-1815 Amsterdam NH (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HF-W9F2 ), d 8-4-1817 Amsterdam (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPWR-2HQD )
Salomon Hartog Stuart b 14-4-1817 Amsterdam NH (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLW7-M4GW )

I cannot find Hartog and Salomon after Mietje’s 1818 death. Could an emigration explain this?

Note: Hartog was not an”optician”(although he could have changed his occupationafter 1817) and I haven’t been able to finda rabbi brother in London. However, I did find a cousin of Salomon Stuart in London: Salomon Alexander Haring b 27 April 1821 Amsterdam, occ: boot/shoemaker (son of Salomon Alexander Haring and Mietje (Hartog) Boekverkoper; see: https://www.dutchjewry.org/genealogy/ashkenazi/7616.htm  )


Offline rutht22000

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Re: Solomon Hart (throwing him out to the world ;)!
« Reply #26 on: Monday 26 November 18 14:05 GMT (UK) »
Thank you  ;D  as you said nothing ventured nothing gained!  He is also my 3rd great grandfather. 

Solomon did name his eldest daughter Hannah and his youngest daughter had the middle name Maria.  Its certainly something to go on.  The cousin could easily be a mangled version of the brother story particularly if they were close

I do know he certainly isn't the son of Machiel and Betje as their Solomon died at about 7 or 8 months old so the Anc trees aren't right.

Something to investigate when I get home tonight  ;D ;D
Jeacock
Colebourne
Shepherd
Scotter
Sievers
Knowles
Pritchard
Lilley
Hart/Hertz
Woodmansey
Monnington
Thomas (South Wales)
John (South Wales)
Pearce (South Wales)