Author Topic: Gray Family - Obley NSW  (Read 8099 times)

Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 06 March 14 04:18 GMT (UK) »
Just did some checking on your Sinfield line and the possible parents are William and Lucy.
A William Sinfield died at Balmain Ref # 2493/1883 The age shown is 58 but these ages are notoriously wrong he would have been aged 62.

A William SINFIELD married in Luton Bedfordshire in 1841 at age 20. He is also down on BDM as born 1821.
In 1841 he is single and living with a male Tyson aged 20 and a family by the name of Gibbs. They are in the town of Dunstable Bedforshire on Luton Road.

Neil
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Offline Neil Todd

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 06 March 14 04:24 GMT (UK) »
I don't know where Newmarket is but a Lucy GRAHAM applied for a marriage license there in 1841 and also married there same year last quarter.

Neil
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Offline AussieWal

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 06 March 14 04:39 GMT (UK) »
Re the 1861 NSW birth cert....


The first we see of Robert GRAY in my district of Molong/Yeoval is in 1861 with the birth of a "male" child to Jane Graham SINFIELD when Jane is 16 years old (from birth Certificate).  In 1867 Robert and Jane marry.   

I empathise with your confusion..

Would you please type up the info from that registration.  You see, it should include the details provided by the informant as to when and where the couple were married, and also where each were born.     

You have them as marrying in 1867, yet the 1861 birth is indexed under the GRAY surname,  but NOT under the Sinfield surname, so I am a tad confused with the info you have posted.   

(Male) GRAY, parents given names: Robert and Jane registered Molong District. NSW BDM #9556

I notice that Robert and Jane G are listed as the parents for George GRAY whose birth was registered Molong in 1869 (#13483).   That birth cert should give you the details of all the older siblings for George, and of course the details about George's parents. 

NSW BDM has authorised official transcription agents.  This is a cheaper and quicker version of the NSW BDM birth cert, and is ideal for family history purposes.

 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html

Cheers,  JM

I empathise with your confusion.  From the birth certificate 1861/009556 18 November 1861.  Name of child "Unnamed" male, Father: Robert Gray bushman Age: 21 Birth: Cape of Good Hope  It then states child as Illegitimate Previous Issue: none   Mother: Jane Graham Age: 16 Birthplace:  xxxx at Wellington  Informant:  Mrs Pinkerton at Obley  Witness:  Crapp

Yes I had noticed mother is stated as GRAHAM

My Robert and Jane's son Daniel (my gg grandfather) birth certificate lists Robert as born in London and 31 years old.  Jane is listed as Jane Graham, formerly Sinfield, being 26 years old and born at Obley NSW (which is in between Wellington and Parkes NSW)

On the marriage certificate the column of father and mothers names are empty, as well as their occupations.  Place of Residence is Yullandry (between Yeoval and Molong NSW).  Witnesses are David and John Harper. Jane signed with cross.  Robert signed name as GREY

I do not have Jane's death certificate but in the place where father is written it states online as "88 Year Old, Peak Hill" and mother is blank, so I do not imagine getting the certificate would shed any light on the details.

It is great to have other eyes to look over the details... because sometimes familisation breeds blindness.   Thanks
Stein Slavin England Huthnance Godsell Lough


Offline AussieWal

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 06 March 14 04:43 GMT (UK) »
Seems like she didnt marry until she was of age re 1867. Maybe she was orphaned and had no one to sign a consent if she tried to marry beforehand.

Her second name Graham ... Possibly her mother's maiden name.

Do any of the certificates you have state where she was born?

There is not parents listed on marriage certificate.  Certificates states born in Obley NSW. 

From you suggestion of adoption, and my knowledge of aboriginality in the family ... maybe she was aboriginal as well, but there is no wording on certificate as there is on other extended family members though.  Review other posts for fuller picture I had indicated there.  Thanks
Stein Slavin England Huthnance Godsell Lough

Offline majm

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 06 March 14 08:05 GMT (UK) »
Seems like she didnt marry until she was of age re 1867. Maybe she was orphaned and had no one to sign a consent if she tried to marry beforehand.

Her second name Graham ... Possibly her mother's maiden name.

Do any of the certificates you have state where she was born?

There is not parents listed on marriage certificate.  Certificates states born in Obley NSW. 

From you suggestion of adoption, and my knowledge of aboriginality in the family ... maybe she was aboriginal as well, but there is no wording on certificate as there is on other extended family members though.  Review other posts for fuller picture I had indicated there.  Thanks

The elusive blanks on NSW BDM marriage certs 1856-1895 have absolutely nothing to do with any suggestion about either the bride or the groom being adopted or any suggestion of Aboriginality.   They are simply still there simply because NSW BDM has NOT EVER finalised their own records.   They do explain this on their website.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_rec.html

" 1912 ...... The Registry took this opportunity to request access to the 1856 to 1895 church marriages registers. Some Registry marriage records from these years recorded only the details pertaining to the parties to the marriage. Details of the parents had been left blank although they appeared in the Church registers. These registrations were amended and a notation made in the margin to record the circumstances of the amendment.

The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate or in the case of a birth, a baptism record where there is no corresponding civil registration.

The lack of information is often found on rural/regional marriage registrations, and even on some metropolitan ones too."



Here is a thread I prepared some time ago, with info and pointers to overcome those hurdles.  A number of RChatters have found it to be helpful.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html

Cheers,  JM (NSW Centric)
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Offline majm

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 06 March 14 08:13 GMT (UK) »
birth certificate 1861/009556 18 November 1861.  Name of child "Unnamed" male, Father: Robert Gray bushman Age: 21 Birth: Cape of Good Hope  It then states child as Illegitimate Previous Issue: none   Mother: Jane Graham Age: 16 Birthplace:  xxxx at Wellington  Informant:  Mrs Pinkerton at Obley  Witness:  Crapp

Yes I had noticed mother is stated as GRAHAM

My Robert and Jane's son Daniel (my gg grandfather) birth certificate lists Robert as born in London and 31 years old.  Jane is listed as Jane Graham, formerly Sinfield, being 26 years old and born at Obley NSW (which is in between Wellington and Parkes NSW)

On the marriage certificate the column of father and mothers names are empty, as well as their occupations.  Place of Residence is Yullandry (between Yeoval and Molong NSW).  Witnesses are David and John Harper. Jane signed with cross.  Robert signed name as GREY


Re 1861 cert.  From that cert, what is the relationship recorded for Mrs Pinkerton and the male child?  What further info is on that document?   :)

Re Daniel's birth cert.  From that cert, when and where did the couple marry, and does the cert include details of ALL (including the 1861 born) of Daniel's siblings?  :)

Cheers,  JM  :)  (off to look up some early NSW Electoral Rolls and other hardcopy records, born and raised 'on the Lachlan' with a smackering of Yeoval, Carcoar, Condo and of Cobar and further west flowing through the veins  ;D

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 06 March 14 08:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,


NSW ER 1903 CANOBOLAS polling at Orange
All with STEIN
Ellen, Hill street, domestic duties
John Laurence, Kite Street, mail guard

May I offer a suggestion

NSW State Records Office has many archives, and only some have been indexed, and of those, most, but not all of those indexes are online.   May I suggest you look through the indexes, as you may well notice family members, and dates, locations, and pointers to various files (for example, just using the keyword “STEIN” sees lots of indexes, including Naturalisation, deceased Estates).  Deceased Estate files often have copies of NSW BDM certificates, these would likely have been submitted to the NSW Supreme Court for demonstrating relationships to the Probate court.   

http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-online 

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline majm

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 06 March 14 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13057194    SMH 15 May 1861
Robert Gray of Molong, laterly of Kelso, publican ….. insolvency, Mr Sempill was the official assignee.
The actual file will be at SR NSW at Kingswood.  You can access these files.  They often have detailed addresses, and of course the full itemised accounts of the debtors assets and liabilities. 


Re John SINFIELD and William SINFIELD
Two chaps by those names signed a petition (John and then immediately thereafter, William) in July 1861.  This was in support of a Thomas HOLT a candidate for the NSW Electorate of Newtown.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13066936    SMH 10 July 1861


Re Cape of Good Hope.  (likely birthplace of Robert GRAY)
report in the newspapers in Sydney of a
Meteoric Shower …. Grahamstown…..predicted meteoric shower from the constellation Leo, with Mr SINFIELD, assistant observer  …..    So, SINFIELD and GRAHAMStown and Cape of Good Hope …  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13140989  SMH 14 Feb 1867
Re the surname GRAY and Kelso/Bathurst district
1859 Petitions for/against Bathurst to be incorporated (municipality status sought)
Robert GRAY of Durham Street
George GRAHAM, household


Cheers,  JM. 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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Offline majm

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Re: Gray Family - Obley NSW
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 06 March 14 09:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

NSW ER 1878 WELLINGTON
Henry GRAHAM, residence Hill End
Farquhar GRAHAM, residence, Ironbarks
Roland GRAHAM, residence, Stony Creek
David GRAHAM, residence, Spicer’s Creek
Roland GRAHAM, junior, residence, Stony Creek
Duncan GRAY, residence, Mookerawa
John GRAY, residence, Curra Creek
George GRAY residence Macquarie River

Cheers,  JM. 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.