'The elder' and 'The younger' - meaning/interpretation

[sugarfizzle]

I am trying to decipher a couple of wills, which appear to be related, but not sure what interpretation to put on them.

My interest is in the various Brigden families of Hadlow, Kent, which started with Thomas Brigden, possibly married Elizabeth Wells 1659/60 Brenchley, Kent, with children born Hadlow, Kent from 1660/61 onward.

Will of Jane Stone, Widow, of Mereworth, Kent written Aug 1650, proved 1659 to husband, Thomas Brigden (who she married in Sep 1650), given in the will as 'my loving friend' Thomas Brigden the younger of Mereworth, Kent.

Will of Thomas Brigdine the elder of Meroth, Kent, written 14 Feb 1653/54, proved 20 Aug 1654.  Leaves bequests to numerous named kinsmen and kinswomen, he names kinsman Thomas Brigden of Hadlow, Kent as his main beneficiary and executor.

He does mention by name a sister, her children (kinswomen) and a cousin

What is the meaning of 'elder' and 'younger' in this context?  Is it that there were 2 people of the same name in the town, to distinguish the two, or does it imply a closer relationship, possibly father and son?

They were obviously related in some way, and I am trying to pursue the other beneficiaries of Thomas the elder's will, but would welcome any thoughts on this.

Margaret

[smudwhisk]

It could be a father and son, it could be uncle and nephew, it could be two cousins of the same name one older than the other or, I'm afraid, it could be two people in the same town of differing ages.  Not very helpful I know but it can mean any of them.  I've had the problem on several occasions and had to search sideways quite a bit to resolve it.

Cousin is also another one that has a wider meaning in the past than now.  I've seen it used to mean nephew/niece, much the same way kinsman/kinswoman can be used.  Similarly stepson/daughter can actually mean son/daughter in law in the modern sense.  But then son in law/daughter in law can be step children.  It can get confusing.

[Redroger]

In a will I would be almost certain that the two people involved were related, possibly father and son, uncle and nephew, or possibly though less likely two cousins. Where it becomes difficult is in parish burial records where it is quite likely that two people with the same surname buried within a short time are not even related to one another specially with common surnames.

[sugarfizzle]

Thank you both for your replies.

I think it may well be research into the other beneficiaries which gives further clues.  Thomas Brigden the younger, who married Jane Stone, widow, may be the same Thomas who married Elizabeth Wells in 1659/60 - familysearch gives both Thomas and Elizabeth as widowed, but I haven't seen the original PR.

Margaret

[clayton bradley]

Prior to 1650 it's also possible that they are brothers. It would be a bit late for that as my examples are from the 16th century. claytonbradley

[smudwhisk]

Prior to 1650 it's also possible that they are brothers. It would be a bit late for that as my examples are from the 16th century. claytonbradley

Good point, I'd forgotten about that.  I have a couple of instances where there were two brothers of the same name and both survived to adulthood. It really did cause some confusion when one set were having children at the same time in the same parish, no wives were mentioned in the parish records and there was no differentiation as to which was the elder and which the younger, but it couldn't have been the same father because of overlaps in baptism dates.  On that occasion we only sorted it out because one died before the other and mentioned his brother of the same name in his Will.   The other occasion was thankfully confirmed by their father's Will mentioning his elder son and his youngest son of the same name.  On both occasions, as far as we could see, the mother was the same for both sons.

[sharonmx5]

I'm presently working my way through a Will of 1553 in which the testator refers to "Thomas my eldest sonne" and "Thomas my younger sonne".  I think it's going to take a fair bit of unraveling! 

[sugarfizzle]

If only they could see us, poring over their wills, making assumptions, getting it wrong, getting it right, etc.

They would probably think we were mad (and they may be right at that).

Margaret

[Redroger]

Yes, I have 2 John's (half-brothers, same mother) in my tree but I think they used different surnames. I think that the term elder and younger was becoming archaic by the mid 19th century but I am open to correction on this issue.