Author Topic: Help and opinions, please  (Read 1767 times)

Offline bykerlads

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Help and opinions, please
« on: Saturday 12 April 14 14:09 BST (UK) »
Two things that I'd appreciate help with, probably both connected.
First, I can't find Jonathan Briggs on 1851 census-born Elland, West Yorks, 1836, delver/quarryman.I've got everything else about him except this, right through to his death in 1891. he was either in Elland or Hade Edge, Holmfirth but could be anywhere in 1851.
Second, (and maybe connected to what he was doing in. 1851) how precise would the cause of death be on the death certs of 7 of his children who all died in succession 1870-80 in infancy? I'm assuming it could well have been caused by syphilis but wondered if it would have been recorded as this or as something a bit more vague. I've not sent for certs yet.These were Jonathan's children by his third wife who then had 2 who survived. His 1st wife had 1 before she died of "morbus cordis" (nicely vague?).2nd wife +2babies died too. Syphilis seems an obvious deduction but I was wondering if less specific terminology was used in the past?

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 12 April 14 14:21 BST (UK) »
Do you have Jonathan's d/c?

Morbis Cordis is heart disease so maybe not suspicious though covering a lot of bases.  ;)

Have you considered purchasing a death certificate or two of some of the children? I have no idea how vague or otherwise causes of death might be, but you would presume if they knew what they died from, then that is what would be recorded (I'm not sure they would be subtle about it to save anyone's feelings if in fact the deaths were syphilis related).

It would be very interesting to find out though and it sounds as though you are curious.  :)

I will see if I can spot him in 1851. Who would you expect him to be living with in 1851? At the age of 15 he may be away from home and possibly enumerated under the wrong name or age ... or there may not be much to identify him by.  :-\

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 12 April 14 14:41 BST (UK) »
how precise would the cause of death be on the death certs of 7 of his children who all died in succession 1870-80 in infancy?

The Births and Deaths Registration Act had three principal aims, to facilitate legal proof of death, to prevent the concealment of crime, and to produce accurate mortality statistics. The prescribed form had a space for the cause of death, but completion of this was based on information supplied by the informant, or by the coroner who seldom had access to autopsy findings. Because of the deficiencies in the system, which were soon identified, in 1842 the Registrar General asked doctors to provide informants with a written cause of death, and in 1843 produced a a classification or arrangement of diseases, the first attempt to produce standard classified lists of the causes of death. In 1845 ten thousand licensed doctors received books of death certificates which they were invited to complete “to the best of their knowledge and belief” but in 1858 over 11 per cent of deaths were still registered without any medical information. In this year the General Medical Council came into existence, but there were 5000 medical practitioners not registered with the GMC and they were not initially included in the death certificate exercise.
The 1874 Act attempted to improve matters, and the ‘invitation’ to doctors to provide information became a ‘duty’, but unregistered ‘medical practitioners’ did not loose the right to issue certificates until 1885.


Dealing with Death: A Handbook of Practices, Procedures and Law

Stan
 
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline bykerlads

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 12 April 14 16:29 BST (UK) »
In 1851 he was not at home with his mother nor with his older brother who had moved to Hade Edge as a quarryman but he is there in the latter village in 1861 as a lodger.
I'd expect him to be either at Hade Edge or Elland in 1851 but he might be working anywhere.
Thanks, Stan, for info on the formalities of death certs.
I intend to send for one or two of the infants' death certs, though there are a lot to choose from, sadly.

Offline Billyblue

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 13 April 14 02:08 BST (UK) »
Presumably you have some reason for thinking it may have been syphilis?

BUT...
Scarlet Fever (Scarlatina) was a major cause of death in infants and children until antibiotics were discovered.
If they were mostly in the winter months, they could have caught pneumonia / bronchitis.
Could have been from malnutrition, depending on the family circumstances.

Dawn M
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Offline KableWalker

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 13 April 14 02:43 BST (UK) »
Infant deaths were also due to TB (tuberculosis) and people would have many children in a row who all died within a few months to a few years of birth. Lots of babies on both sides of my family both in the UK and Sydney, Australia, died from TB, esp. in Scotland. Deaths from measles were not uncommon, cholera was common before proper sanitation. As today, lots of stomach bacteria and viruses could easily kill young children. I noted 2 of my would-be aunts died from measles meningitis in the 1910s. Have a look on Google about early Public Health in France and the UK in the 19th century- they concentrated on water-borne diseases in London while developing piped water and sewage. Searching these early health reports can be helpful. http://wellcomelibrary.org/moh/
Happy hunting!

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 13 April 14 04:21 BST (UK) »
Infant deaths were also due to TB (tuberculosis) and people would have many children in a row who all died within a few months to a few years of birth. Lots of babies on both sides of my family both in the UK and Sydney, Australia, died from TB, esp. in Scotland.

I also have several cases of family dying in quick succession in Scotland from TB related illnesses.

Offline bykerlads

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 13 April 14 09:33 BST (UK) »
Thanks. I hadn't thought of other possibilities of illnesses. It was the pattern of each baby dying after a few weeks/months and then eventually 2 surviving. I recalled this pattern as being common with syphilis, as it worked its way out of a person's system.
I do have Jonathan's (their father) death cert. He died age 54 of "congestion of the brain 3 days".

Offline iolaus

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Re: Help and opinions, please
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 13 April 14 12:29 BST (UK) »
It could also be that they were all premature (though that could be caused by syphilis too)