Patrick HEFFERNAN

[majm]

http://austcemindex.com/other-sources.php?id=7866887   Amazing, the website is now offering extra hints    I learn something new everyday at RChat 

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW ER 1878 THE GWYDIR

Samuel SELMES, residence, Narrabri


And from Lithgow City Council website

http://www.council.lithgow.com/cemetery.html    (there's a downloadable pdf there for their cemeteries) 

Cheers,  JM

[dog_foster_carer]

Hi Wivenhoe

Vesper's marriage certificate states her father was deceased in 1919 when she married and the witnesses for the marriage were William Frost and Susan Barber.  The birth place of the other children would likely have been from other family trees on ancestry.com.

I googled Wallerawang/Selmes/Heffernan and I'll have a better look at those result later, could be very interesting.

I've just checked and as far as I can determine, none of Patrick and Ada's children named any of their sons Patrick. The closest was a daughter Patricia.  I don't know how to find out if any of them are in the bakery trade - I will keep looking re this.

Ada's baptism certificate shows she was born and baptised in Armidale, NSW. The informant on Ada's death certificate transcription is her last son William S Heffernan who also lived in Greenacre at the time of her death.  After looking more closely it states that her marriage to spouse Patrick Heffernan was at Wallerawang NSW and that she was 21yo at the time. It shows that her father, Samuel Selmes, was a master baker. Perhaps Patrick worked for Samuel at some stage and that is how they met.  I will try to follow up on this, any suggestions on how or where to start looking into this would be appreciated.

I'm thinking her son William Sidney Heffernan must have been born illegitimately to another father but used the name Heffernan like the other children.

I think I will request copies of the marriage and death certificate of Olive and the death certificate of William Sidney as see what it tells me.

Thanks so much for your help.  Please let me know if you come across anything else or have any ideas on how to further my investigation.

Hi majm,
Thanks for that info. I had managed to find that info in my searches.  Please keep looking and suggesting! 

CassT
Thanks for that obit link, I didn't know about that one! Yes, I did have the headstone pic. Cheers......

giblet
Thanks for the info, I didn't have that before! 

majm
I will look into the probate link, hopefully there will be some more info there. Thanks for the 1903 ER info, will follow up on that 

Neil Todd
Mmmm, very interesting, worth following up methinks! Thankyou! 

majm
"quote:  NSW Birth certs list the names of the older siblings.  However, as there is no father named on the index, it is likely there will not be older siblings (listed) on that cert.    BUT  It ought to give you details about Ada that will help confirm or eliminate her from the Heffernan search."  Can you please expand on the bolded part?

cupoflife
Yes, that certainly is Ada's birth record.  Father was Samuel Charles Selmes and mother was Emily Whittaker.  I did have it but well found, with all the spelling discrepancies it was a hard one to locate lol! 

majm
Vespa (Vesper) Heffernan's marriage certificate shows that she was a tailoress, lived in Good Street, Granville and was a spinster at the time of her marriage to Alfred. Her father, Patrick, is listed as a baker, no occupation is listed for her mother Ada.  Samuel Charles Selmes [1852-1929] was Ada's father and his father was Charles Samuel Selmes [1814-1894].

I can't thank everybody enough for all your help.  I have quite a bit of follow up to do with all this info.  I appreciate all your efforts very much!!!!!!  THANKYOU!!!!   
 

[majm]

majm
"quote:  NSW Birth certs list the names of the older siblings.  However, as there is no father named on the index, it is likely there will not be older siblings (listed) on that cert.    BUT  It ought to give you details about Ada that will help confirm or eliminate her from the Heffernan search."  Can you please expand on the bolded part?

Civil registration for births commences in March 1856 in NSW.   And the questions asked of the informant include  seeking the details of the previous issue of the marriage.   So the older siblings are listed, usually by name, in chronological order as their age is noted too.   If they had succumbed before the birth of the baby being registered, then the record notes their gender only.  ADD, sometimes the cert only gives number and gender for the then living older siblings.  (I have examples from my own NSW centric tree showing both alternatives).

Sometimes the registrar recorded all the names, but if the mother was not married (ie she did not give the registrar the details of when and where she married, no proof required) then in the 19thCentury, her older children were not eligible to be included on their younger siblings birth registrations, as their father was (at law) not known, and therefore the father's given name is not displayed at the online index.   This can happen even if the father was the informant....    So, on those historic bdm records, often there's birth certificates that contain info as to when and where the baby's parents married, and when we search, there's no record found of a likely marriage.  But when the online index does not give a father's name, I would not expect the birth cert to provide details of when and where the mother married the baby's father.     

I hope this helps explain. 

Cheers,  JM

[rosball]

Hi Julie,
  I am going to State Records Office on Thursday so will have a look at the 1912 probate (and photograph if relevant). JM's instincts are usually correct 

 Sorry my list is quite long so I can't look at all possibilities this visit. 

cheers,
   Ros

[dog_foster_carer]

Ros,
That is so kind of you, and way more than expected.  Thankyou so much.  It would be good if something regarding the true Patrick turns up.  Excuse me for this but 
Julie   

[majm]

Ros, the online index has it as P Heffernan, and it is only in the remarks as Patrick.  So, if you pre-order,  that would be P. Heffernan   Remarks "File now at Z08091 [20/7004].  "Z" entry lists name as Patrick and locality as Murrumburrah.     I have not found the Trove notice    for the Probate.

Fingers crossed .... I have been known to be way off on the wrong tangent.... 

Cheers,  JM

[rosball]

Thanks JM  (I'm so slow these days  )

And a pleasure to help a dog foster carer, Julie 

cheers,
   Ros

[majm]

Do we know who the following Patrick HEFFERNAN was?
Reefer’s Hotel, Wagga, Monster Reef Junee, Patrick HEFFERNAN 1869-1870
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~surreal/NSWW/Hotels/publicans-licences-N-R.html    If this is Ada’s Patrick, then he would be many years older than Ada.   

NSW ER 1913 CASTLEREAGH, polling at Trangie

Edith Emily HEFFERNAN, of Trangie, domestic duties
Thomas HEFFERNAN of Trangie, Hotelkeeper

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16826090 , Obit (SMH  SMH 14 Oct 1931) gives no family history info.  He was a pioneer of Trangie District, late of the Trangie Hotel, Trangie, and Honorary President of Trangie Jockey Club.   Mrs Heffernan survived him.  He was interred Rookwood RC. 

Family notices:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16817376   SMH 13 Oct 1931.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16802231       SMH 21 Oct 1931  Probate notice (retired hotelkeeper)


Julie, please don’t order the real deal certs, but spread your pennies around and instead order the Official Transcriptions of any of the three official agents appointed by NSW BDM.   You get the same info, already transcribed, and without the fancy priced certificate.  Better still, they can send it to you as an email attachment..  http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html#transcription 

Cheers,  JM  (Ros, I ought to have typed it up as P Heffernan in the first instance, you are not slow, it was my sloppy wordsmith skills getting sloppier  )